are PA predator hunters discriminated against by the PGC?

[Seeking_Coyotes]

It is no secret that trappers kill about 75% of all furtakers in PA or more according to the PGC.  Why is it that the pgc has again extended the fisher trapping season and we are not allowed to kill a fisher as a licensed predator hunter in PA?  Why although we have a small effect on the resource, do we not get to hunt bobcats until after the trapping season is done?  Predator hunting in Pennsylvania is like putting the deer rifle season before archery season then having archery season shorter than rifle season.

I would encourage anyone interested in promoting our spot to write our commissioners.  I have written every one of them and spoken on the phone to them as well have having talked to former Executive Director of the PGC about this face to face last month.  I can't do it alone.  If you want to see expanded and fair seasons for predator hunters, please do your part and contact the pgc commissioners and let them know how you feel as a Pennsylvania Predator Hunter. 

There is zero fox research studies that happens in PA.     With the influx of coyotes and overpopulation of fischer populations, this may result in a significant loss of the fox research for the future.

[uncle buck]

Interesting the Fisher.  I once saw a video that showed a fisher beating up on a gray fox.... the gray fox was getting whipped bad...So the Fisher could be considered a predator and could be called with a call and shot and it would be ok if approved by the PGC .

Predator hunters can shoot skunks, weasel, and possums all year round but trappers can't trap all year round...

Trappers can trap muskrat, mink, and beavers but predator hunters can't hunt them at all..

I have called in Mink already with a call so they will come to a call..

IMO I'm glad that the bobcat season is not when the trapping season is because trapping season for bobcat is around the Christmas holidays...That is just a tough time since there is all kinds of things going on in church and with family...
What is real bad is that you can't call in and shoot possum, weasel, and or skunk with an electronic call...Not legally you would have to use a hand or mouth call..

truly you do need someone to get on that panel that the PGC has set up that is a predator hunter..  That committee has all kinds of hunters on that committee.. I would hope that someone in the predator hunting committee is on the panel...

I just wanted to add things  to the post to make people think....

Many times old antiquated laws are established from old hunting ethics...Like you can shoot a ruffed grouse standing still but you should flush a rabbit, ringneck, and or duck before you shoot... I remember that when we could not use lights on guns the people that tried and did  defeat it never even went predator hunting at night...

[scott]

The bobcat season for hunters was moved because the hound hunter complained.  they were upset because a part of it was during muzzleloader season and there were too many people in the woods.  i actually had one tell me that they were going try and have it moved because every guy who owns a couple of acres is out witht he muzzleloaders and they were getting mad because they were trespassing and did want to deal with it anymore.  another example of how clueless the PGC is when it comes to things.   Every weekend from Jan to March the game commision could fine the hound hunters in my area for multiple violations but it never happens. 

[Seeking_Coyotes]

Hopefully Rick, our new PPHA president will lobby for us with the PGC for equaluty and extended opportunities.  Rick is a passonateguy and if anyone could make progress for us Rick could.

[zekedogg]

Mike,

As you know I would love to lobby on our behalf for these things and others. I have been talking with some legislators from the Pittsburgh area that I personally know, but as you know it takes someone personally attending the meetings and having a face at these PGC meetings. I personally can not attend them as I'm 3 1/2 hours away and like most have commitments such as work that I'm not able to attend them.

I have however made a post in the legislation forum asking for volunteers for a committee http://www.ppha.us/smf/index.php?topic=7551.0 unfortunately it's had 58 views and no replys.

Hopefully in the upcoming months we will be able to get the membership energized and some folks will step up and volunteer. It would be great if we could find a member from the Harrisburg area that would be willing to donate a few hours here and there to help us with this. I'm keeping my fingers crossed and in the meantime I'll continue to do what I can on my end and  hopefully you and everyone else will do the same.

You and I have spoken about this before and I know your passion for this issue so please keep on those guys with phone calls and emails and lets hope we can get a committee together and go about this like I know we can

[uncle buck]

I never read of anyone getting busted for hunting improper as a result of coyote and fox dogs... I know there is a lot of sportsperson complaining about how they are using high tech things that can cause  someone in the general public killed when they hurry from point A to Point B because of all the high tech gadgets...
Oh the bennies of living in a populated farm area... The farms are to small here.. Also the farmers here don't take any sheeeeeeet... Why they soon shoot you and then as you lay there on the ground wounded (maybe) "What are You doing Here?"

[jeremybrua]

I don't see anything wrong with the way it is now.  I think instead of bashing other people or the way they choose to harvest fur we should support them.  You have to ask yourself do I want to change the laws for my own benefit?  Trapping cats after people and dogs have been after them day and night would be next to impossable but there would be more cats for "you" to go after.

[TrappinJohn]

I would like to see a hunting season for everything you can trap.  No reason not too.

My guess is the fact that the PTA has been donating thousands of dollars and hours to the PGC to help with studies and reintroduction programs such as the fisher and otter for many years.  They are involved and there voice is heard.  They have people that are closely watching and lobbying constantly when needed.  They donate and support the National trappers association that does the same thing on a national level too.  Comparing the PPHA to the PTA, like everyone seems to want to do all the time, is like comparing your high school football team to the NFL.  Predator hunters need to become a MUCH closer, more organized group to start to compare.  They are not discriminated against, they are just not heard



You ask
"Why although we have a small effect on the resource, do we not get to hunt bobcats until after the trapping season is done?  Predator hunting in Pennsylvania is like putting the deer rifle season before archery season then having archery season shorter than rifle season."

answer is, because the hunters ask for it.  It was of the request of the hound hunters.  Evidently they have more of a voice than the callers.  You all have the power to change that if you put enough effort to it.

I don't know a trapper that wouldn't trade you bobcat seasons.  You can have the early season.  The late season is an much better for cats weather you're hunting or trapping.

You are always quick to complain about trappers instead of working on making it better for the hunters.
I would gladly support changing things to benefit the hunters, but you'll never my support the way you present it.  Your approach would be more likely to get something taken away from our sportsmen than adding to what we already have


BTW, these quotes were taken from HuntingPA.  I've ask you twice were you found this study, but you never answered.  Care to respond now?  Guess since I've been doing both for 30 years+, I'm killin 10 out of 10 

Originally Posted By: Seeking_Coyotes2
I may be wrong but I think there may be a trapping season for Fisher but not a hunting season. If so, this is nuts...pgc statistics show that trappers kill 8 of 10 fox in the state. Why would they give trappers a shot before predator hunters. Like putting rifle deer season before archery season?

Originally Posted By: Seeking_Coyotes2
Trappers in PA kill eight out of ten fox compared to two killed by predator hunters in that same ten

Originally Posted By: TrappinJohn
I don't disagree with you that you should be able to hunt fishers as well. Personally, I wish they weren't here at all, but that's another topic.
This is the second time I've seen you post these statistics. Last time, you quoted trappers kill 8 out of 10 and hunters kill 2 out of 10. Where do you get this info? Just curious

[uncle buck]

Trappinjohn said:  Predator hunters need to become a MUCH closer group!

Trappinjohn is a wise and knowledgeable man!!!

[Leglifter]

+1!!

[zekedogg]

I agree

[bigben]

Tj is a wise fella. Doesnt speak much but when he does its good.

[Bees OBrien]

I was reading through and thought about some of this......and I'll ask you guys for opinions on these subjects relating to predator hunting.

-Allowing the hunting of raccoon and bobcat on Sundays in PA
-Allowing a calling season for Fishers. (I've called in a few, as many of you know I live smack dab where one of the initial release sites is)
-Changing regulations on license requirements for coyotes. I always believed that those who harvest coyotes should have a furtakers license. Nothing burns me up during bear or deer season when I hear.... "I shot a coyote on our first drive yesterday, left that stinking thing just lay there......what the heck would I want it for" Furtakers in general use the furbearing animal resources much better and respect their harvests more than those who shoot coyotes whenever
- And I hate to say it but I'd like to see an actual season for coyotes.....sept 1 to march 31

_Have the bobcat seasons run together both trapping and hunting.........I may have missed it in a post but what is the logic in separating the seasons? someone know why this is?

[scott]

we should be able to hunt racoons on Sundays. 

Never called in a Fisher, but I think you should be able to call and shoot them. 

I feel the exact same way about coyotes shot and left to lay.  should have a furtakers stamp to shoot one.  but people will shoot them and let them lay even more.  at least some of the people get them mounted. 

The bobcat season was always trap or hunt.  it is my understanding that when they went to the short season and it was in December the hound guys go upset because they were loosing half the season because it overlapped with muzzleloader season and they were getting tossed off a lot of properties.  so they petitioned the game commission and had it change to after the muzzleloader season when nobody was in the woods. 

[zekedogg]

Personally I think that we should be able to hunt Fisher, and bobcat and coon on Sunday. Especially bobcat, because of the short two week season you lose two days but to top it off some of the hours lost are prime hours for a working man because if you're out hunting on a Saturday night you can't shoot a bobcat or coon past midnight.

I also agree with Bees, I think a fur-bearers license should be required to take a coyote.

I don't think the PGC is discriminating against predator hunters at all. As far as the Sunday hunting issue that is out of the hands of the PGC. This is an issue for our legislators and the couple I've talked to are telling me to sit tight on this as the Sunday hunting lawsuit may change this for us all and that till this lawsuit is out of the way they'll not be able to get anyone to look at anything concerning Sunday hunting, especially for just two species.

I think TJ hit the nail on the head, if the predator hunters could get themselves to work together some great thinks may get done. Hells Bells if just our members could bring themselves together for a common goal could you imagine what we as an organization could accomplish.

There seems to be some interest in this thread, lets take this interest and channel it into the legislation committee and let show the PGC and this great states legislators what a group of organized hunters can do when they finally figure what they're capable of.

The fact of the matter is this, I will make the PGC meetings I can, and I will continue to speak with legislators concerning issues that pertain to the PPHA and all predator hunters, other officer will as well but we are but a few men and if we don't get some participation from some members who can volunteer some time once in a while I'll not lie to you, it a moot point to even talk about it. So the onus is on the membership to get involved and help in any way they can.