Predator X-treme article

[Papa1]

Good read on White lights.  A lot of good points.  What do our people  that are selling Red lights have to say?  Dick

[Bulldog]

Big ben an been using white light for about 3 years now an i like it better then red

[CoyoteLight]

Very good question Papa,

There are quite a few major problems with using a white light for hunting at night which are not mentioned in the article.  In addition, there is some wrong information that lacks a technical explanation and an argument from opposition. 
They obviously have found a method of filming which works for them (hunting from a vehicle), and using six very large white lights (page 42).  However, carrying six lights just to see good is not practical or efficient due to the size and weight for most hunters.  Here are 5 good reasons to use red:

1. Most predators cannot see red.  Canines and fox have dichromatic vision which effectively makes them red-green color blind.  When using a red LED light, if a fox or coyote does not come into your call they more likely saw movement or caught your scent. 

"a team at the University of California looked at the photopigments (i.e. light-sensitive chemicals) of dogs and foxes. The optometrists found that all the canids in their study possessed two cone pigments, one with a peak sensitivity of about 555nm (light green) and another with a peak between about 430 and 440nm (dark blue / purple). In the Red fox (Vulpes vulpes), this second (short-wavelength) peak was at 438nm. These findings imply that foxes have dichromatic (i.e. two-colour) vision similar to that of a human deuteranope – in other words, it suggests that foxes are red-green colour blind."
http://www.wildlifeonline.me.uk/questions_answers_foxes.html#colourblind

For example, someone could be lighting you up with a night vision scope.  However, you would have no clue because you can only see about 700nm of light and the night vision scope is projecting a beam of light over 1000nm.  It is the same with canids (carnivorous mammals of the family Canidae: coyotes, fox, wolves, dogs...) which can only see a peak of an estimated 430nm to 555nm. 

Another example of how a canid views white lights could be similar to our eyes and UV light.  We might be able to sense or feel the UV light, however, we can't see it.

The article mentions that dimming the white light is basically the same as a red light, which is incorrect (Page 41). 

2.  White light ruins your eyes "night vision". It takes a very long time for your eyes to fully adjust to the dark (20-30 minutes). 

In your eye, red light maintains the greatest rod sensitivity possible. "red light does not stimulate the scotopic system."

In your eye, "Rods and cones are not equally sensitive to visible wavelengths of light. Unlike the cones, rods are more sensitive to blue light and are not sensitive to wavelengths greater than about 640nm, the red portion of the visible spectrum." http://www.aoa.org/x5352.xml

For example, some other practical applications for red lights are in pilot cockpits for flying at night and photography dark rooms.

Here is a reference to the color spectrum and details about wavelength of light:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/vision/specol.html

3. Seeing contrast at night. In the past I have tried using white lights many times and have always gone back to red.  Most properties I hunt have hedge rows or woods.

Byers does note in the article that "One situation where the white light might be inferior to red lights is among trees.  In a woodlot, the light tends to bounce from a tree trunk to tree trunk and cause dark shadows, whereas a red diffused light allows the target animal to stand out." (page 44)

4. Red light reflects eyes much better than white.  Anyone who has simply tried or compared lighting up a critters eyes with both a white and red light will soon figure out white light is not good for scanning for eyes.

5. Red LED technology has improved.  The article mentions that seeing a coyote beyond 100 yards with a red light is difficult (page 41).  Until now, most hunter have been using red filters over white spotlights which is very inefficient.  However, with CoyoteLight (Red LED, no filter), we have proven the CoyoteLight can identify predators out to 500 yards (with good optics).  Here is an example of identifying a coyote at 250yds:


Please let me know if you have any questions.
Brett

[bigben]

I call bs that they cant see red light. If they cannot see red light then how comes a dog that chases a white light around a room will also chase and follow a red led light around the room?  If he cant see red then how comes he chases it?  Also why or how does red show eyes much better then white you get put what you put in and white is just as easy to see as red imo. If red is so much better then white why not make headlights on cars red as well? 

[Cooper13]

I call bs that they cant see red light. If they cannot see red light then how comes a dog that chases a white light around a room will also chase and follow a red led light around the room?  If he cant see red then how comes he chases it?  Also why or how does red show eyes much better then white you get put what you put in and white is just as easy to see as red imo. If red is so much better then white why not make headlights on cars red as well?

i have experienced the exact opposite... my neighbors dog(boxer) will chase the white light and completely ignore the red BUT will chase a red colored laser pointer...hmmm wonder whats going on?? i guess untill one of us dies and comes back a fox or a coyote we will never know

[Lookn4Fur]

I have read articles that stated K9's see all light but see red, not as red but a color resembling grey to black depending on the intensity of the light.

I feel this is why dogs chase red lights.  They see the light moving on the floor but they don't see the red color.

I also feel these guys can get away with six spotlights for the reason they are up in a high chair or rig that allows the angle of light to be above the animal.

[Bulldog]

I'm  having  the same success with white as i did with red. I've said it before. To me it's  what you feel comfortable without? All i do know for sure is i will know that a fox is coming before anyone with a red light knows

[shortmagger]

I pick up eyes/reflectors using red way before green or white,maybe just me but i do not see near the reflection from white or green as I do red,plus red isn't as noticeable from the side such as passing cars and such,therefore less harrassment and explaining to people you're not trying to shoot deer..............everybody to their own

[CoyoteLight]

I call bs that they cant see red light. If they cannot see red light then how comes a dog that chases a white light around a room will also chase and follow a red led light around the room?  If he cant see red then how comes he chases it?  Also why or how does red show eyes much better then white you get put what you put in and white is just as easy to see as red imo. If red is so much better then white why not make headlights on cars red as well?

As for the question about the laser pointer, you cannot compare a laser to a light.   Lasers do not fall into the same classification as ordinary lights because of a physics phenomenon called optical coherence, which means all the light generated is both of the same wavelength and all the waves are synchronized.  This gives a laser a whole host of special properties including an extremely high visible intensity.

Another clarification is color blindness does not necessarily mean the predator doesn't see anything at all.  The predator might see some shade of grey.

Jason

[Buckwheat]

Red works fine for me. I can identify and shoot farther then I ever needed too.

[Papa1]

Brett and/or Jason @Coyotelight.  Thanks for all of the cites.  it will take me some time to read all of them but I will.  You would be the 3rd light that I have bought on advise of sellers on this forum.  It is time for the "Buyer to Beware".  I failed Latin so I can't spell that Caveat stuff too well.  Dick

[bigben]

I call bs that they cant see red light. If they cannot see red light then how comes a dog that chases a white light around a room will also chase and follow a red led light around the room?  If he cant see red then how comes he chases it?  Also why or how does red show eyes much better then white you get put what you put in and white is just as easy to see as red imo. If red is so much better then white why not make headlights on cars red as well?

As for the question about the laser pointer, you cannot compare a laser to a light.   Lasers do not fall into the same classification as ordinary lights because of a physics phenomenon called optical coherence, which means all the light generated is both of the same wavelength and all the waves are synchronized.  This gives a laser a whole host of special properties including an extremely high visible intensity.

Another clarification is color blindness does not necessarily mean the predator doesn't see anything at all.  The predator might see some shade of grey.

Jason

I never even brought up lasers?

[CoyoteLight]

i have experienced the exact opposite... my neighbors dog(boxer) will chase the white light and completely ignore the red BUT will chase a red colored laser pointer...hmmm wonder whats going on?? i guess untill one of us dies and comes back a fox or a coyote we will never know

As for the question about the laser pointer, you cannot compare a laser to a light.   Lasers do not fall into the same classification as ordinary lights because of a physics phenomenon called optical coherence, which means all the light generated is both of the same wavelength and all the waves are synchronized.  This gives a laser a whole host of special properties including an extremely high visible intensity.

[predator77]

I personally won't use a white light anymore for several reasons, some of them are bias and some of them are for the simple reason that most people see red and know what I'm most likely doing. I have seen fox while spotting and took off with a white light hitting them and the first coyote I ever called in actually made a whimper type sound when I hit it with the light and it took off. I know dogs can see red because I have a farm that I hunt regularly. It has a old farm house where one of the owners family member lives. If my headlamp is pointed anywhere towards that direction, the dog starts barking and the house is atleast 250 yards away from the entrance if not further. I would like to try green someday.

[Buckwheat]

OK, I was going stay away from the white light discussion. But I can not stand it.  Fact! You can kill with a white light.  Another fact! Most hunters will kill more with a red light. Today there are more good red lights then ever before. There are red led lights that are so bright that you can clearly see and kill well over 100 yards and a lot farther with some lights a good scope.
I have used a white light a lot so I know how I feel about white. Go in the woods and try a powerful white light you will soon see a difference. I can get away with a white light when I hunt open areas and can do pretty good, but I like to have more flexability then just open spaces. The red lights today are so powerful and you can see clearly enough so why even spend money on a white light to hunt with. I have a carnivore 5 in white that I use for looking around with or tracking and spot lighting deer but not to hunt with. But if you want to buy a white light go ahead. You will end up buying a red one anyways for hunting. I would like to sell you 100 lights. :-) save your money and let others use white.