Seen my first buck out of velvet yesterday. They usually lose it around the 7th thru the 13th of Sept every year. It was a good 3 1/2 year old 3 and a half legs and the opposite side of his rack was deformed. Would have been a solid 8 with a 14 inch spread or so. Great buck for a kid to get. Looked in usual rub spots but didn't see any. they must still be hanging on the other hill bunched up. I can't wait for the first evening of bow season.