Increased coyote numbers and fox hunting practices

[scott]

Hern,  I have a spot where the cut corn field runs on a hill out to about 100 yards.  The. Slopes down to a 600 yard corn field.  Fox and coyotes will run to the top of that hill and look down at us standing in the brush. Can't shoot with the rifle because we don't want to send a rifle round into the next county.  I stand at the edge with the call and send a shotgun shooter 30 yards from the top of the hill. He has to be quick but it works. 

Ernie,  it is my opinion that coyotes move on when hunting gets tough.  They push deer out of an area. Rabbits hole up quicker.  Kinda like when we over hunt a place.  I think the know this and move from area to area.  If I have coyotes behind the house they stay for 5 to 7 days.  Then they are gone.  But will be back in 3 to 5 weeks. 

[Buckwheat]

Scott
Since coyotes have core areas are they just visiting your end of there range and just moving around in there range and like  another part of the area better for many unknown reasons. I seen them leave areas with plenty of game to eat. I would like to really know the real answer to this. It would help me pin them down better. I will say it again! Pa needs to do a real study and stop using information from other studys. The pa game commission needs to get front and center wit real facts. He'll maybe we should get our money together as a club and buy some gps tracking  equipment.

[Misterjake23]

Ernie,  I'll buy the GPS tracking equipment if you catch one !  I say that jokingly, but my question is if we had the equipment,  how do you catch a coyote and collar it to track it?  Then what happens if the collared dog gets killed and the collar is taken.

     In theory, I like the idea, but how would one use it ?

[scott]

just my theory and what i have noticed.  my buddy lives one mountain range over from me maybe 1 mile as the crow flies.   if he is hearing or seeing fresh coyote sign, i am not behind my house.  if i have them behind my house they are not over his place.   we figure it is the same pack of coyotes moving in their range.   i know this when they are behind the house during archery season you can tell, deer movement is limited.  it is my opinion that they have 4 or 5 areas that they will use to hunt.  once the game gets chased for a while they become smarter and harder to catch, once that happens i think the coyotes move to another area to hunt.   

not sure that we will ever figure them out they learn and adapt so well.  would be neat to collar a couple and track their movements. 

this year behind the house i saw at least 6 different fox during the archery season.   2 grey fox pups, 1 adult grey and 3 reds.  i didn't get any of those behind the house.  didn't even have a call in.  a lot of tracks in the snow but for some reason they are not responding to calls.   i have some different things we are going to try this year so we will see how it works.   can't hurt.   

[Hern]

I stand at the edge with the call and send a shotgun shooter 30 yards from the top of the hill. He has to be quick but it works.
Not trying to split hairs, but you (caller/sound) are at edge, shooter is on side hill (not silhouetted).
Your methods, at this location, are what I been saying for years...one has to make adjustments and pay attention to detail. Certainly not the basis chit.
Buckwheat says-
Pa needs to do a real study...
Why?

...and stop using information from other studies.
What states? And where did the PGC print this info?

[Buckwheat]

Jake
There is a lot of different tracking devices.
I like the ones that track by satellite.
Then when they get close to there run time expires the collar
drops off. You can read about them on the net.
Catch one by leg hold and collar him.

[Buckwheat]

Hern
If the PGC has not done an in depth study on coyotes in PA. Were did they get there information?

[Buckwheat]

Scott
All good information on coyotes in your area but only two parts of there range. We're are they when not at those two locations
They probably act the same in other areas but that  would  just  be  another  guess. That is why I too would like to see them radio tracked in different human population places in the state.

[Lookn4Fur]

Im not sure the general public can legally perform a tracking study like that?  I always wanted to do this with Rattlesnakes but it is not legal for some reason.  Maybe because they are a species of concern.  Of course Coyotes do not fall into this category.

Have you noticed all studies on coyotes are performed by Government or University's provided grants from the Government?  There is a reason for that i'm sure.  Maybe if you had an acredited biologist on your team you may be allowed. 

[jaspr1]

Well if it's not illegal it should be. We don't need another animal with a tag,collar or flag up his or her a**,parading around the woods in the name of science. I give you the Tuscarora Golden Eagle project, on the surface this seems a rather mundane experiment. Place deer carcasses for bait and take pictures. However the downside in my opinion is the non-target species lured in for a free meal. Bears for instance have been photographed with some nasty face wounds from fighting,imagine that,free food,equals concentration,equals fighting. The other downside would be if every hooftie was allowed to track by electronic device,they would be sticking there trophy buck,or whatever, with a tracking device and "BINGO" take the guess work out of the 1st day. We almost have this now with the "SMART Trail Cams" that alert you to game present at your cam location...and collared hounds....whatever happened to "FAIR CHASE"? .............JMO.................                  

[Buckwheat]

Jasper
How can collecting information on coyotes be unfair.
It is not like anyone wants to shoot the tracked coyotes.
Fair chase. LOL You mean like tree stands cross bows, in line rifles as black powder. Old and young first chance at game. Private food plots to shoot over. GPS mapping. Fair chase today only means what the laws allow.

[Misterjake23]

Ernie,   Good point about "fair chase"  many states allow baiting.... You forgot that one!

[Pa Goosehntr]

MJake...Pa is allowing that in the special tag areas now  before long we are gonna have a tax on shroons... If hunters would be "Honest" and report kills, deer, coyote, etc. they could garner a fair amount of data...but it's hard, takes too long and I don't have a computer...etc. etc.. Why as a club can't we collect data from our members??  Such as a harvest report, the SRWA that I belong to sends out a member harvest report to collect data that is presented to the Atlantic Flyway Council.....just a thought that may cost a member a stamp 

[uncle buck]

There was a time when I use to go predator hunting right at dark... Especially when you had to quit hunting at 1201AM Sunday morning... However what I do now is I start to get ready at 8 ...many times won't start until about 9;30PM for fox.. However noticed that coyotes  are more vulnerable after 11:oo PM.. they will come out into the fields or the stubble corn then..So if I know coyotes are in a area I start calling at  11:00 PM. it's almost like they know that man is bedding down for the night.  Actually heck the spot lighters have to quit at 11:00 PM.

I do think that coyotes act different in different parts of Pa too..You start to see a pattern developing on how they come to the call in populated small acre areas... Also so important to watch where the rabbits are at the we hours... Many a time I don't even yank chain and play with their brain then... I do rabbit distress...You got to be able to start to read the land.. Like large fields with a tree line and on your side a field that is small in acres.. when you do the rabbit distress and the coyotes are on those farms they come running through the tree line right into the small acres of brush..this is places that the rabbits are in abundance too... One farm I just park the car and head for a corner.. I have called many a coyote in that small patch. Actually Scott came down one time and we called a coyote on that farm.. Soon as we turned on the electronics it came running right at us across the large field.. it was feeding on a road killed deer that made it on the far end of the open big field... Sadly we didn't know it was feeding on the carcass.. however as soon as our light hit it ran in the other direction....

what you need to do is sometime if you get a chance... go hunt with some Texans on their lands and just watch on they set up...I now hunt like them ... All that Dennis Kirk BS of hunting with the wind at your back is history with me...I might hunt cross wind or most times it's the wind in my face and the coyotes will come in from the up wind side. There other tricks you use to now in populated areas when there are roads at your back and fields across the from the farms your hunting on...I truly like Oct when there is high corn up yet...They be in that corn!!!!!!Shotgun needed then...

Scott and I have hunted many a time now.. We always call in coyotes!!!!!

[QUATTRO]

Been out of the country for several weeks and was glad to see this thread gathered some steam since I first started it..thought it may have ended up a dud..good info and thoughts as usual..good to keep the gears turning, thanks for responding. There was a good write up in some magazine I read recently, which I cannot for the life of me remember the name, that followed two trappers.. one or both of whom were also biologists, in Alabama. They were called in to trap, collar and take DNA samples among other info for a study being spearheaded by several universities and the states of Georgia, Alabama and South Carolina...if my memory serves me correct. It is being dubbed as the most comprehensive one of its kind..will be interesting to see what it finds...I've also read an account of a gps collared coyote that profiled the coyotes travels over the course of an entire night, in real time, from the time it left its den til it returned. All very interesting. They also have crittercams on the "new species" of urban coyotes in Chicago. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/11/141121-coyotes-animals-science-chicago-cities-urban-nation/ ...they are enigmatic, prolific and here to stay...thats something I think we can all agree on and these dialogues are how we will evolve and adapt just like they are.