PPHA Forums
Predator Hunting => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: matt12 on January 20, 2014, 08:48:02 PM
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I'm new to predator hunting and was wounder what everyones opinion on a good but not to expensive bolt action in .223 would be. All i have now is a rem 700 in 30-06 and a .22lr. none of which are good for predators. 30-06 will work but i want the pelt lol Also is .223 ok for fox? i know its a good yote round but is it excessive for them? What would be a good all around long range caliber be? 22-250? also aside from that question, is anyone taking yotes down cleanly with the .17WSM? I live in Allegheny county and am limited to rimfire.
Thanks in advance for any help!
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I have no experience with the .17 WSM other then through research and second hand. The January edition of Predator Nation has an article called Texas Shootout. They are using the .17 WSM for coyotes and the author says 7 coyotes were killed with it. Quick bullet points.
None went further than 75 yards after hit.
One, a 17 lb female shot at 118 yards dropped in its tracks with a 25 grain center chest shot.
Six shots were under 100 yards.
The author claims 2,600 fps with 375 ft/lb energy and states its 60 more than any .22 Mag.
My personal opinion is that Eastern Coyotes are bigger animals and much more difficult to bring down. I believe that under 100 yds and a perfect shot you would be ok, but you will be tracking. Another opinion is that the .22 mag is a much better rimfire for coyotes. I've never heard anyone say a .22 mag wasn't ok for coyotes. The thing is that it needs to be a good shot and at a reasonable distance.
You can pick up a cheap .223 in Savage Axis for around $275 or a Ruger American for about $350 at walmart. An H&R single shot would be reasonable also. Used you are looking at $125-$225 and brand new around $300. Sometimes Dick's has a sale on Remington 700's for around $350, but they are for Dick's specific 700's. Normally though they are around $550. I have one and its a great gun, but the bull barrel makes it quite heavy to lug around. I have an Axis also in .243 and the trigger and clip are terrible. The .223 is a great long range caliber and if you don't reload ammo is easier to get from stores. Unless you are reloading for the .223 you will do alot of damage to a fox with most factory ammo. 22-250 from reading is a good solid coyote gun, but way too much for a fox. The best rimfire you could find honestly is a 5mm mag, but good luck with that.
.17 HMR/.17 WSM/.22 mag- A+ for fox(.17 WSM and .22 mag will kill yotes under 125 yards)
.204-good for fox/coyote(mixed reviews for fox though)
.17 Hornet/.17 Fireball/.17 Remington-Good for fox and coyotes
.223/22-250/.243-A+ coyote rounds
I'm not a pro, but I do read alot and follow numerous posts based off of these rounds. Good luck and let us know what you end up getting.
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I use a 17 hornet for fox....I love the calibre. Its a Savage walking predator model. Its a tack driver and I've killed fox over 200 yards. I mostly take head shots. I shot and hit a coyote right behind the shoulder standing broadside 80 yards away and never found it. I was very confidant in the shot, but after looking long and hard, no fur was found. After that experience, If I'm specifically going our for Yotes, I'll take either my 204 Ruger or my 22-250.
I also use a 204 Ruger 40 gr hornady VMax on fox. I again take head shots and haven't blown one up yet.
I personally am not a big fan of the 223. I would rather step up to a 204 Ruger. I like the bullistics better. I think its faster and more flat shooting over the 223.
JMO...Every assult rifle owner is using the 223 caliber, and as a result, I think ammo is harder to find in the 223. If you reload you own, obviously you can play around with loads to find one you like.
For inexpensive rifles, I would look at both the Savage and the Thompson Center Venture bolt action rifles. I own each and they both preform very well right out of the box, and I am shooting factory Hornady ammo out of both. Both manufactures offer a rifle / scope package for around $500-$550.
If you're spening $275 for the gun, lets not forget now you have to buy rings, and possibly mounts PLUS the scope.....Now your back up to the package priced gun.
I'm sure you will get other opinions on the 223 calibre. I have no experience with the 17 wsm. IF I shot at a yote using teh 17 wsm, I would definitely take a head shot. I say this based upon my experience hitting one with my 17 hornet, which is putting out 3650 fps with a 20 gr Hornady V Max bullet, and never finding it , hitting it in the front shoulder.
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Matt12,I have a 17 super mag,came close 2 times on coyotes but Didnt get a shot either time.It is a cheap savage rifle,out of the box I wasn't to impressed on the groups at 100 yards,about an inch an a half groups,but after I done some modifications,( free floating the barrel an adjusting the trigger to a crisp 1 pound) it tightened up a good bit.I agree with jake,It is a light bullet an if at all possible I would try for head or neck shot if possible on coyote.I ordered a box of bullistic gell to see what kind of penetration it has an to see how bullet performs.
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thanks for all the informative replies. still up in the air what i want lol looking into lol Im leaning towards the 17 WSM tho. i live in a rimfire? shotgun only area and rarely get a chance to venture out of the county. seems to be the best out of the 4 rimfires.
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If you get a savage 17 wsm an don't like the performance,it is easy to free float the barrel,I used a socket wraped with sand paper,and there is a round knob under trigger,pull up an turn,I forget what way does what.
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Matt12,I was reading a post on foxpro,under feline hunting,a fella shot a 33 lb bobcat,he figured it to be 75 to100 yard shot,said it fell in its tracks,he was using the 25 grain bullets.
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They have a neat little test on guns an ammo.com,about the 17 super mag.
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17 wsm might be the best of the rimfires.
If you do not reload or have someone who can for you...the centerfire route will be tough for both fox and coyote. I guess a .17 Rem. or .223 Rem. would be my picks. I can't see using anything smaller on a coyote.
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Seeking Coyotes says..
If you do not reload or have someone who can for you...the centerfire route will be tough for both fox and coyote. I guess a .17 Rem. or .223 Rem. would be my picks. I can't see using anything smaller on a coyote.
I agree,tough to beat the 17 or the 223.Me myself swear by the 243 wsm for coyotes.But I am a gun nut,an love foolin with new calibers.. 8) :D
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243 is a great all round caliber and really does the trick with yotes. It's a nice gun to carry after fox season has closed.
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I bought a B-Mag but decided I need something a but more powerfull for yotes. So I bought a used Savage Axis in 22-250 for $274. I used it to get my first coyote on Saturday and man am I happy. It was pretty thick near me and I would've hated to track it. But he just spun around and collapsed about 10 feet from where I shot it. I think I might of been tracking him if I used the 17wsm.
The Axis only weighs 6.5 pounds and has a free floating barrel too. Can't beat it for the price.
http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x347/compshooter1/image.jpg (http://i1177.photobucket.com/albums/x347/compshooter1/image.jpg)
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Thats one maingie looking dog! A good one to get rid of! Nic job on putting him down.
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I think everyone should first assess what they intend to do with the harvested critter ??? ??? ??? If you intend to skin it you will need to focus on minimal fur damage ;) ;) ;) Should you only be interested in eliminating the population... :o :o :o then an 30-06, 338, 7mm, or 378 Weatherby Mag will do just fine 8) 8) 8) all flat shooters and will gut, skun, and sometimes bury the critter with large gaping holes ;D ;D ;D
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Walmart in Binghamton has a Savage Axis in 22-250 for $275. Maybe next year I'll get one just for kicks. So many guns, so little money.