PPHA Forums
Predator Hunting => Predator Hunting => Topic started by: Whitefeather on October 09, 2010, 05:03:21 PM
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Have any of you seasoned coyote hunters been noticing a LACK of scat? I was in Tioga County last weekend. Specifically in the Arnot area. Thousands of acres of state forest. It was opening day for deer and my brother n law and I spent the day scouting primarily deer while I was looking for any signs of coyote. Tons and tons of deer scat and tracks. NO Coyote scat whatsoever, and I am pretty good at finding poop No tracks anywhere either. Was in Monroe and Carbon yesterday morning scouting and again, I covered tons of ground and found one sign of predator scat and it may have been Bobcat. I talked to a veteran hunter who was lookin for deer and he stated the coyote have seemed to either wonder off or whatever, but hearing them and seeing them as tapered off in the past years. I am obviously becoming frustrated. I am going out tomorrow before firstlight to get set up in the area where I saw the possible coyote scat. The Bethlehem Water Authority has two reservoirs and a dam theyuse for a water source. (use to belong to Bethlehem Steel) Area is fenced in and you can see signs where animals are going under the fence. If I was a coyote that is where I would be. No pressure!!
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I have been saying that for two years now. The sign in the Northern part of the State is seemingly less and less.
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Got a better chance of getting hit by lightning than seeing a coyote in Pa.
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no shortage of coyotes in the areas I am hunting.
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Got a better chance of getting hit by lightning than seeing a coyote in Pa.
There are plenty, turkey, and deer hunters kill plenty. They are just hard to call. You have to pat attention to the wind at all times. The best way to hunt them is by yourself.
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I'm going out tonight to see if I can call one in. I may even experiment with my new bird call I bought from Jeremiah at the expo. I tried to bow hunt deer this evening but with quads, dirt bikes, people walking in the woods, kids playing in the woods, loud motorcycle pipes, and some one blasting ZZ Top on the highest volume they could find, I threw in the towel and went home. My area is growing so much there is no reason to even try to hunt during the warm weather.
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Got a better chance of getting hit by lightning than seeing a coyote in Pa.
There are plenty, turkey, and deer hunters kill plenty. They are just hard to call. You have to pat attention to the wind at all times. The best way to hunt them is by yourself.
The one time I saw a coyote I called it in and it was 10 yards from me. I am talking about just while scouting I am not seeing signs of coyote, and these areas I was told by a PGC biologist coyotes are there. Are they walking on water and crapping in the weeds? Like I said, I havent seen any coyote tracks when there are tons of other tracks, coon, deer, turkey. Not seeing the scat either. Saw more scat in July than I have in Sep and this month.
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Well, either they are not there or you are looking at the wrong spots for tracks and scat
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do you think the houndsman have anything to do with lack of visiable sign? they hunt alot and harvest a ton of coyotes up north. Maybe try hunting closer to populated areas as they tend not to run their dogs where they will cross too many roads
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I was in a populated area all this morning. Loads of strip mines and forest with a large town on one side and smaller towns throughout. I did find fresh coyote tracks coming out of a wooded area into a large strip mine area. No scat though unfortunately. I was desperately looking for scat to verify it was coyote and not a dog. The gait is close together which leads to believe its not a pet (not dog tracking). I lost the trail when the ground turned real hard and allot of rock. 200 yards in the direction the tracks were facing is a residential area. I can maybe guess he/her heads for the yards for pickins in the middle of the night. Who knows, could of been heading anywhere.
I suspect in order for me to be successful in the places I go, I need to go deep into the woods, where visibility is low and I am at the least advantage compared to the coyote. I am not sure at this time what else to do. I don't have a partner so I am always alone. Makes hunting at night all the more spooky.
Someone on one of these posts stated to hunt coyote during the day. I don't know anyone who's seen a coyote during the day.
I do my best to educate myself and read responses from "veterans" on the forums but the contradictions are high. One guy says this and another this.:) I appreciate the responses though and take all the info I can.
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Whitefeather
Hunting thick stuff at night is not much fun for a person hunting alone. I personally would hunt your more open spots tight to the thick stuff at night and go into the thick stuff in daytime. Sneak into these spots like you are hunting a nice buck. Keep the wind in your favor as much as possible and try and set up that you can see farther and better the he can in the thick stuff. Call the location right away, setting there being quietly thinking you should let things calm down just puts more sent into the thicket. Finding a lot of scat is proof that they are there in good numbers. Sounds like you know they are there but it sounds like there numbers are low. Just call the location and hope for shot. If you are still in doubt you could try trying to get them to howl at night to give you more confidence in picking your stand location. When coyote numbers are low even the best callers have struck out so do not get discouraged. Makes getting one all the more sweater.
Ernie
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Thanks Ernie (Buckwheat)
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I have called in just as many during the day than at night, i think they are easier to call in the daylight you just have to understand where they want to be and why. i use more coyote talk during the day and less at night. i don't think i ever called in a coyote during the day using distress sounds only. when hunting alone it is very important to use an electronic caller, i know people don't like them but imo they are a must for the daytime hunter.
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Look for scat where two logging trails intersect. Also.....look for scat on steep inclines or logging roads going up the side of a mountain..Did you ever climb a trail yourself and the exertion even makes you have to defecate...See we are all mammals.. If they strain a bit too to go up a step logging road... Look for the scat right at the top where it levels off... Also on the tops of large bales of hay in fields..
Coyotes now have easy pickings on things like Grasshoppers...Once it gets colder....after deer season....find where the deer are coring up.. That's where the coyotes will be....
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I read a good book a while back titled 'Coyote Hunting' by Phil Simonski, he talks about driving out at dusk or right before dawn to locations and listening for coyote. Only stopping for 5 minutes at any one locating and than moving on. When you hear them, you know you have a place to set up when its light enough to see. Buckwheat touched on that too.
He also talks about what to call when. Playing on their senses, by turning the volume down during your calling. I recall Uncle Buck saying that to in one of his 'Playing with their Minds' posts. Makes sense to me. If a coyote is approaching, turning it down may make him come further cause he thinks the prey is farther.
He also says in late winter and early spring breeding territories are defended and blowing rabbit calls rarely brings them in. Using a howler it this time you have more of a chance to bring in a young dog or an adult. He claims at dusk and dawn are the best times for coyotes to respond to distress calls.
Than you watch Randy Anderson vids and they seem to call em in whenever they want in broad daylight.
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Our coyotes have wolf in them...They are a bit smarter and the greater human population back East makes them weary of man...
What is nice is when your hunting and you hear a emergency siren in the distance and the entire mountain opens up with howls.. I have had that happen to me twice now...Instead of using coyote vocalization for locating here in the East...A siren is better... I have called in coyotes with just using a Coyote Interrogation Howl. So if your trying to locate with howls they could be busting you and you don't even know it...
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Scott
I also believe an electronic call in the woods helps a lot in the day time. I am also going to mess with that new decoy FoxPro is coming out with in the day time some.
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Our coyotes have wolf in them...They are a bit smarter and the greater human population back East makes them weary of man...
What is nice is when your hunting and you hear a emergency siren in the distance and the entire mountain opens up with howls.. I have had that happen to me twice now...Instead of using coyote vocalization for locating here in the East...A siren is better... I have called in coyotes with just using a Coyote Interrogation Howl. So if your trying to locate with howls they could be busting you and you don't even know it...
I don't understand your post. On one hand you say not to use coyote vocalization, than in the next sentence you say you have called them in with interrogation howl (coyote vocalization).
In my post above when I said go out before light or just before dark to locate, I am mean listen!!! No calls at all. Just drive around the areas you think they are and Listen!! Than go set up where you hear them!! That's all. Just taking the advice of some, including Phil Simonski.
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Go at 2am, and listen. Coyotes right now are making short, mellow, easy howls talking back and forth. You will figure it out.
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Anyone on here hunt in Carbon, Monroe, Luzerne, Lackawanna or Schukyll counties. I am in Northern Montgomery, but I always have to travel to hunt coyote. None around here unfortunatly. I am use to traveling. I would love to go out with a experienced coyote hunter. Would be willing to just hold light (if at night) for you to shoot, just for the experience and education.
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I don't understand your post. On one hand you say not to use coyote vocalization, than in the next sentence you say you have called them in with interrogation howl (coyote vocalization).
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What I was saying is: When I hunt coyotes they come in when you do an Interrogation Howl..As you know that is just a plain howl..So if your trying to locate coyotes never use an Interrogation Howl or any kind of coyote vocalization.. When locating coyotes use the siren only...
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a lot of guys will get to a spot and use a howl to see if they are in the area, they hear them then try and set up on them, often the coyote is already moving to you and you to it so success rate would be low. if you are hunting coyotes in the day, if you could ride around the night before with the siren and listen you would have a better chance of getting one the next day because you have narrowed down the area.
Buckwheat - i fooled around a lot with the decoy last year and had zero success with it, it really doesn't fit into my style of coyote hunting. now fox that is a different story and the hawks and owls love the decoy.
Whitefeather - i hunt in Luzerne, Wyoming, Columbia, and Bradford Co's. I wont target just coyotes until after the new year, you could wait until then or you can come up before then, but most coyotes at that time are not targeted but we do call them in on fox sets.
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Scott
Why do you think you had such bad luck with a decoy? I have tried decoys a little but think I was using them haphazardly. I never had a electronic call that I could set out there far enough to have the sound and decoy at the same location. The decoy was always so close I never really needed to use one.
So let me hear your reasoning, I might not bother either if it to much a pain in the butt.
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I feel like if i have to walk out and place the decoy where a coyote is going to see it I will be busted before i start. last year i knew where some coyotes were hanging around. found a place in the woods that went from a thick area to a thin area back to a thick area where the coyotes were hanging around. i figured i could wait until the wind was in my face sneak in and place the decoy and the caller 20 yards into the thin area and back out to the brush. about the 40 minute mark of calling i had a male challenge me exactly where i thought they would be, but instead of coming to the edge of the thick stuff and seeing the decoy he circled me and ended up about 75 yards below me before he caught my wind. I did catch a glimpse of him and if i was hunting my normal way I would have killed him.
my records show that about 90 percent of the coyotes i call in will come in on the downwind side of the electronic caller, depending on the wind it can be anywhere from 80 yards to 200 or more. So for me the smart money is to get at least 100 yards downwind of the e caller.
I am going to try the decoy again this year, i have some new thoughts that i am going to put to use. not sure what decoy you are going to try but I have the Mojo critter and it is durable and lasted all season with one set of batteries, think i got it for 35 bucks.
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I don't know one hunter in PA. who has killed a coyote over a jack-in-the box. I'm certain a few may have. What new hunters have to remember is there are less coyotes. When the deer herd is reduced way down the coyotes seem to be fewer. Face it killing a coyote in PA. is luck, but no reason to go out there without knowing the basics. As far as electronics, i feel the less is better for coyotes. As Scott said the right time of year if that howl back, sounds like he's coming in. Wait it out. If you get a hung up yote, game over. Your either busted or it has heard your type call before. A educated coyote. We also got to remember there was one bunch who killed over 140, 2 years ago, and a handfull who killed 50 or more over hounds. Even guys i know who killed 4 or 5 a year, a few years back have been lucky to kill 1 or 2.
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Luck is where preparation meets opportunity.
Scott
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Luck is where preparation meets opportunity.
Scott
I agree, but i have never seen 1 sport where one could be so prepared and 99.9% of the time something goes wrong at the last second. I think it is what keeps us hunting them. What did i do wrong? What can i change?
It can drive a guy crazy. lol
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they are the ultimate PA hunters challenge that is not doubt, anybody that says different hasn't hunted them long enough.
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If coyotes were so smart they would have bank accounts, a house and a car. The reason you don't see them is there are very few of them in Pa. I have hunted all my life and have only seen two in pa. Hunting them in pa is a matter of luck unless you know an area were they are. I concentrate on fox in Pa.
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Every now and then you will be lucky and call one in when your fox hunting... However IMO....They are not like all the other predators in Pa...If you hunt them like you do bobcat, coon, gray fox, and red fox your going to fail..However see that how you get to notice how coyotes are by failing....
I hunt them and think of them as mammals like all of us....What impact human mammals impacts the Eastern coyotes too..Just like someone in your work area or even on here at times will try to yank your chain...That's how you hunt the Eastern Coyotes..Yank his or her chain...
They can reason too....if something is out of place or something just ain't right your not going to get them to commit to your calling.
If they are there and you know they are in the area.. You have to go one and one on them. They will come to your calling if they think another coyote is in their area. That's what you have to make them think in Jan and February.
Scott is correct too...If there are coyotes in the area and you walk out into a field to place the decoy...It's over...Funny..Scott and I got to hunt together last year..We were calling fox and we did not know that not more then 250 yards from our spot a coyote was feeding on a dead deer..Of course we got busted...we got busted real fast too.. We turned the caller on it played for 30 seconds if I remember the coyote came running toward us scented us and it was all over. Had we place a decoy out in the field we would not have known that coyote was there.. It would have spooked.. As the predator season progressed I went one on with these coyotes for the entire season. Learned so much from them how they were coming to the calls. Sometimes I used the Foxpro FX5, another time I would use the Primos Powerdogg, and then mouth calling too.
For you guys that go out of state and get all kinds of coyotes.. Don't let those positive experiences in other states hurt you when you hunt in Pa.
They are there and just remember Pa coyotes are mammals just like you and I... Aggravate them like people human mammals aggravate other humans and you will start getting shots and seeing them too..
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Coyotes can reason..... really..... please tell me more. You guys are blowing this thing way out of proportion. You've already missed some of the most opportune times to be succesful calling and killing coyotes. Although they may not be plentiful throughout the state, they are here, and in abundance. The winter months are when most hunters try..... and fail miserably.
I'll post more later... I'm goin huntin'.
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How many have you killed this year?
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rennys a pretty good fur caller and trapper.
BW. pm sent.
whitefeather.
keep looking. and don't think because you found sign that the animals are still in the area. if I was wanting to bag a coyote I would locate via siren and make a game plan for that night if they responded. around here they move so much they may be there one night and the next they are gone. I will stick to fox till coyote get more plentiful in this area. They are here. no doubt about it. but would rather kill a average old fox. they're more fun. ;D
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UB is correct calling to long like calling for fox, will get you busted. And now is the time to be out as Renny said.
And there are a good bit of coyotes in PA. Trappers take many also. You have to pay attention to the wind and know the woods your hunting and where you know the coyotes bed and go for water.
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There is some great advice in this thread. UB -- I hope I didn't offend you, it was not my intent. I think many folks give the coyote too much credit in its abilities to "think", or "reason". My opinion is that it is learned responce from different senerios that particuar critter has been exposed to throughout its life, or genetics. Some coyotes are agressive, while others timid. That being said, I think ALL coyotes have something that will pique their interest and to be successful it is our job, as the hunter, to find out what that thing is.
While the cottontail distress is arguably the most commonly used call, it can also be a deturrent to a particular coyote, or coyotes that have had a bad experience with that sound. With all the new sounds on the market today, I think a e-caller is a great investment. It gives us a chance to think outside the box with the push of a button. It also gives us a chance to use coyote vocalizations without knowingly screwing the sound up, which in my opinion, is done more often than not. I don't think the average hunter studies yote vocalizations enough to use them properly. A howl is a howl type of mentality. With about everyone have access to the internet, there is no reason not to try to learn to speak the language. This site also has some of the best guys in the state, if not world, at calling and making calls.... sweet!
The siren is a awesome tool that can really get coyotes fired up and does not warrant a responce other than vocal. A great locator, and IMO underutilized. As stated, it gives you a chance to move through an area and come back later knowing your target is in the area. If I KNOW coyotes are there I feel better sitting longer on stand and it seems I am more attentive, and oftentimes more succesful.
I spend the spring and summer months scouting my area, searching for new ground, looking for tracks, scat, and dens. As Ben said, just because there is no sign now does'nt mean there wont be in the upcoming weeks. If your not finding sign, move on, but don't give up on those areas. Legwork will pay off eventually, and the more you put in, the bigger the rewards.............
I don't think I've ever posted this much in my life.. ::)
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That was some great advise from Renny and everyone else that posted on this thread. This is the reason I joined the PPHA. The need to learn more about the sport. Thanks to all.
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Where can I get a siren?
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agreed with everything renny said. +1.
whitefeather
if you have a foxpro go here http://www.gofoxpro.com/fpsounds/index.php and scroll down to the free sound previews. siren1 sound 206 is what I use to locate with
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Trapping gives you a great opportunity to study behavior.
Here is a submissive coyote......
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t136/renny28/ah005.jpg)
Aggressive......
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t136/renny28/ah006.jpg)
Here is a behavior I have only seen a couple of times in my life.... A tail wagger. Like a come and pet me kind of wag.
(http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t136/renny28/Fall09055.jpg)
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Here is a behavior I have only seen a couple of times in my life.... A tail wagger. Like a come and pet me kind of wag.
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My black lab will do that right before he is going to bite.....
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LOL -- I've got scars from that very thing.... ;D -- Lab too
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agreed with everything renny said. +1.
whitefeather
if you have a foxpro go here http://www.gofoxpro.com/fpsounds/index.php and scroll down to the free sound previews. siren1 sound 206 is what I use to locate with
Thanks bigben, but I dont have a Foxpro I have a Power Dogg. I'll have to think of something else.
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Heres a cheapie...
http://www.gamecalls.net/products/Code_3_Coyote_Locater_Siren-2252-1.html
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I have on that also a bull horn..Got that in Bonton at the end of season clearance... However I do have one on my FX5 and I also have a Knight & Hall cassette with a siren on it too....
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Thanks Renny. That outfit is going out of business and that particuliar item is out of stock. I found same item for $1 cheaper on this site
http://store.rogerssportinggoods.com/servlet/-strse-Calls-cln-Predator-and-Game/Categories?sfs=22cb96d
PS> I ordered it! Thanks again!
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Renny...Nope did not bother me since you came back and gave some good info to help new hunters out.
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Sometimes I wonder why folks hunt coyotes in Pa. because I see them get frustrated with close encounters or they have no luck at all and they get even more frustrated. I don't put to much thought into it. I try to follow the basics, hunt a good wind, be quiet, don't move, make the right calls, not to loud, not to often.
If a coyote or coyotes show up I know I did something right and I try to figure out what I did different this set up as opposed to the last 30 dry stands. What I won't do is act like a bad golfer and get all pizzed off and from a bad swing or a bad round of golf. I hunt coyotes because I love calling for them (mouth calls or e calls) and the challange they offer.
At night I usually hit the areas with the most coyote sign in areas that allow the best visibility such as fields, powerlines, old roads, train tracks, etc.... During daylight I hunt near thick cover, steep terrain, or difficult to get to (remote) areas. My strategies are not magical and very rarely successful and after a day, week, or an entire season of coyote hunting without any fur in the back of my truck all I can think about is hunting coyotes the next season.
If you are absolutely compelled to kill any coyote, go to Texas. If you want a eastern trophy keep doing what you enjoy to do, put your woodsmanship skill to work and keep your fingers crossed. :)
bootmud
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me and yotestalker hunt in elk county we have called in 5 or 6 this year, yotestalker got one this year, we are just having bad luck, it really is about luck
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Sometimes I wonder why folks hunt coyotes in Pa. because I see them get frustrated with close encounters or they have no luck at all and they get even more frustrated.
I think too many see it on tv and think that it is easy. they never show the hard work that goes into hunting coyotes. normally when I hear someone at a local clubhouse say they are only hunting coyotes I tell em good luck because they are facing a lot of stands and hours in the woods. I think if guys that are new to the game would just call fox and coon for the first few years they would enjoy predator calling more. someone can get discouraged quick by only hunting coyotes.
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Sometimes I wonder why folks hunt coyotes in Pa. because I see them get frustrated with close encounters or they have no luck at all and they get even more frustrated.
I think too many see it on tv and think that it is easy. they never show the hard work that goes into hunting coyotes. normally when I hear someone at a local clubhouse say they are only hunting coyotes I tell em good luck because they are facing a lot of stands and hours in the woods. I think if guys that are new to the game would just call fox and coon for the first few years they would enjoy predator calling more. someone can get discouraged quick by only hunting coyotes.
I am new to hunting and I could definitely see folks getting frustrated and giving up. I have been a racer for the past ten years and have spent tons and tons of $$ traveling and racing. I gave it up this year, but needed something to fullfill my rush and adventurous soul. I planned to hunt fox originally and than learned about coyote hunting and can hunt year round. Also like the challenge of it. Not interested in sitting in a deer stand for hours waiting for a deer to travel into my line of sight. Seems boring to me. I also can live without venison, so hunting deer to me seems futile. I would rather HUNT something that takes more skill, than luck.
You are right about watching videos and falling under the illusion that it s easy. The videos don't show the hours of preparation and waiting. I know I will get one with persistence and taking advice from some of you folks here.