PPHA Forums
Predator Hunting => Predator Biology => Topic started by: Hern on September 02, 2013, 11:03:49 PM
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Let's tall...droppings (scat). Fox & Coyote
When scouting, calling, trapping or fishing I look for droppings. I look in-season and out-of-season. Plain and simple, it's a sure sign a critter was there.
But at times, it's not so simple to figure why a signal animal stopped there. Is it a local critter? A traveling critter? Adult or juvenile? Hard to answer. Where was the critter going to or coming from? A look around the landscape should tell you the answer.
Where I find several piles of droppings, aged and fresh, is where I want to call or trap. This shows me the critters spend time here and feel comfortable here.
Your thoughts on droppings (scat)...
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I tend to see a lot of scat on logging roads or atv trails. I perceive this as the animal being just like me and taking the easy travel route. I've also noticed that the "pile" is usually right in the middle of the road and usually not off to the side.......
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I'm always looking for droppings anytime I'm out in the woods. I have the most problem with identifying the age of the dropping. I always think if I knew how long ago the dropping was made, I could figure out if the animal was within calling distance. Of course I can determine fresh from old but I would like to be able to tell the difference between fresh as in just dropped to 6 hours old. Not easy when you consider frost, rain and snow. I look for a shine, softness and even temperature to determine really fresh droppings. If I run across that, then I am calling immediately. It doesn't matter if it's a lone animal just passing by or I am in their living room.
If I find a kick back in front of coyote droppings, I consider that a territorial animal and I am in the coyotes home range. I feel that when a wondering coyote passes through a territory or is trying to set up his own new territory and leaves droppings the resident coyote will leave his droppings on top or within three feet and do a kickback trying to prove that this is his area and he is bigger, stay out!
Scat is interesting and as hern said, difficult to determine specifics from but can be very beneficial to understand.
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First off this all sound like a lot of sheeeeeeeeet to me!!!
IMO I don't care if the scat is old or new. If it be red fox then it's probably going to be there no matter how old it is unless it's in the mating season. I pay more attention to the type of scat... is it domestic dog or is it canine... Now red fox and coyotes I better say it this way: IMO has pointed ends on it...Small scat with pointed ends that be a red... Now when you start to get into the bigger cigar size with the pointed ends that be coyotes... Now what is so hard to ID IMO is gray fox scat...Can't figure it out sometime if it's coon or gray fox..
Now if it wet and shinny I do feel like it fresher than that white scat... However you just never know if the fox or the coyote might have a bit of constipation problems that particular day... Hey they are mammals like us...
Again if you do find coyote scat... You know that at least they do come through there.... Now where I hunt it's not YET designated as Pa Coyote Hunting Capitol of the world... So I do keep it in the back of my mind when calling that I might want to throw in a few coyote vocal toward the end of my fox calling just in case the coyotes are not there..
What I find far more important is sign....Now the only time to get some good sign is after a heavy rain and you look for tracks in the mud along the sides and corners of the fields...
Also snow.......If you find tracks in the snow heading from Point A to Point B on a farm.... a direct route... More than likely the predator is just passing through... However if you see those tracks Sig sagging around the tree line and brush piles in the snow... that canine is hunting and you need to call right away...
I once knew a guy that could smell if ruffed grouse were in the area...You would think that you could smell where a coyote or fox might have taken a fresh pee? You Would think?????
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When you thinking about scouting and tracking...Many of the natives in Africa hunt different things with bow and poison tips... But did you know that they know what time a certain field mouse only comes out over there in the terrain they hunt... you know the roads that cut right through the hunting area... SAND!! They track in the sand that's how good they are... OK if they find a targeted animal paw print or hoof with the field mouse track on top they know the target animal passed through before the field mouse time. Now if the field mouse tracks are at the bottom let say of an antelope hoof track they know that based on the time when that field mouse comes out in the morning that the antelope just came through there...We don't have much Sandy areas in Pa nor do we know all the habits of small animals like our field mice...However that's how some tribes track in Africa by where this particular field mouse track is in relation to the target animals track... It gives them a point in time when the prey animal really came through that area..
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I am replying to add tracks and tracking to this post, but you guys beat me too it.
Tracks and Droppings go together when scouting, for the most part.
UB, finding fresh tracks in a muddy trail or on a tractor path after a rainfall or fresh snow will give you a time line when the critter came though. Years back, I used a trail timer(before trail cams). That's was the modern day thing to use for Deer, but I used it on Fox & Coon... ;D
Scouting is ongoing when it comes to furbearers, don't stop looking because you are out there doing something else in the middle of the summer. Keep close to critters. And in-season scouting is a must as the furbearers are changing gears from time to time.
Grey Fox droppings are the same size as Red Fox, but blunt ends. Red Fox & Coyote droppings have tapered ends.
Tracks-
I view a single track or dropping as just that. A Fox or Coyote passed through.
Tracks I look for are coming and going from 2 different directions. That's a good trail.
Better yet to find a 4-way crossing, coming and going in 4 different directions...Bingo! That's where McDonalds wants to sell burgers. That's the area to work over.
Look to see if the tracks are different sizes, meaning you have a family group or two to work over. This will help you estimate how many critters are using these trails. And this information may help determine how many critters you want to remove from this area and how much time or set ups you want to plan for this area.
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Better yet to find a 4-way crossing, coming and going in 4 different directions...Bingo! That's where McDonalds wants to sell burgers.
This made me laugh. ;D
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Yea Tim me 2 on the laugh....I think they already had their burgers...LOL! ;)
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Mrs O not going to like those canine cross roads that lead to Mickey D's!!!!!Next we will have to figure the caloric content of the droppings...:( I think this post has stepped over the RED LINE! Just Joking...that is funny Hern... That was a good one.....
I was once told by a wise trapper to watch how the farmers domestic dog acts when it travels around the farms. He told me to use this knowledge to set traps for canines... I can tell you this... when calling..99.9% of the time the coyotes not going to come to you by jumping over the stubble corn... Now if there is a farm lane down through the corn he will come down that or a farm lane...remember least resistance... they know how to not use up their energy...You know me always comparing the coyote mammal to the human mammal...Why I try not to walk across stubble corn either... I'll take the farm lane up to the hill if there is one....So watch the lanes real special when calling...
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>:( >:( >:( >:( >:( Finally a subject that I am an EXPERT at and nobody calls me out on this... ::)..I like to stir up the crap, spread it around and of course step in it on RARE occasion.. ;D..I am now not going to share my extensive knowledge on this subject.. :-X :-X :-X
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jaspr1 says...
Finally a subject that I am an EXPERT
;D
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Less than an hour old. How do I know? I was going back and forth last year with a yote but had my 22mag. I didn't want to shoot it with that caliber, so I stopped calling and and made a break towards the truck to drive 5 minutes back home and get my 22-250. When i came back to where I was originally and started to call again, I got no response but I did hear something come in and leave from behind me and was gone in a second. I realized that was probably the dog I was messing with a half hour before, so I got up to leave. As I was walking down the same gravel road to get back to my truck, I seen it. SCAT! fresh and only 25 yards from where I was calling from just 30 minutes earlier. :'(
(http://i457.photobucket.com/albums/qq297/dawgpredator77/scat_zps4650ac0b.jpg) (http://s457.photobucket.com/user/dawgpredator77/media/scat_zps4650ac0b.jpg.html)
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WOW....Ya gotta love the visual!!! It looks so real and life like. I could almost smell it thru my computer....
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I have two yotes challenging each other and me on my phone to from that night. Only sounds.
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That's really cool when stuff like that happens. I was able to talk back and forth one time with a couple of what I believe were a couple juvenile dogs. I'd howl, they'd answer. I'd howl again then they'd answer but never get any closer. This went on for about 20 minutes to a half an hour. I got impatient went for broke and challenged them never to see or hear from them again.
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There was one dog in particular that was fun to deal with. I hope he's still around this year because every one of his howls were aggressive and challenging. I never heard just a regular social howl. He would light up with howling screams. I hope I hear it again this season.