PPHA Forums
Predator Hunting => Trapping => Topic started by: Pa Goosehntr on May 13, 2016, 09:07:23 PM
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:) :) :) Hern, when you skun a critter do you flesh it the same day or wait til the next day or a couple of days?
Also, does it flesh easier waiting a day or two? ??? ??? ??? ??? ;) ;)
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:( :( :( :( You guys musta plumb tuckered Hern out at the show :P :P :P :P He's still sleepin ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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After skun'n, I lay Coon on cool cement floor for a day or two after skun'n. Then flesh & board.
The fat sets up and is not as messy when flesh'n. Coon seem easier to flesh when fat is set up.
Coon flesh'n can be put off for several days without soiling or slipping.
All other furbearers, gets skun & fleshed the same day, for the most part.
There are times when I skun and freeze. Then flesh & board when I have time.
There are different ways guys work up fur. This is how I usually do it. Other folks have different agendas so may work up fur other ways...
When I volume trapped & called (and worked a full time job), I skun & froze at times when I didn't have time for the fur shed.
This is still common practice for many trappers & predator callers, skun & freeze then put up later when one has time. This method adds to more time to call or set traps. A time saver. One way to 'make more time on the line'.
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;) ;) ;) There you have it folks....now let's see some more questions!! :o :o :o :o :o Like is it easier to skun a coyote vertical or horizontally? I've seen out west they carry a rig for the receiver on their pickups that's vertical....?? ??? ??? ??? ???
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Vertical or Horizontal? I think your question is about using a hoist and fixed base.
Either method is good. I don't think one is faster than other.
Out west, there are remote areas where guys trap and camp for extend periods of time. Some of these area have no trees. A horizontal skun'n rig was developed to fit in trailer receiver so folks had a place to skun. They been used for decades out west.
Last season, two friends trapped Wyoming. This was the first time out west for them. They built a horizontal rig for that trip. They said they used it every day.
Goose, this thread is on the wrong page.
Any other fur handling questions should be posted on 'Fur Handling' page.
Let's move over there for other fur put up questions. Ok?
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:( :( :( :( Well excuuuuuze me!! :P :P :P :P :P Saw a coyote crossin a plowed field along I-81 this mornin...shaggy lookin... ;) ;) ;) ;)
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Hern, How would you rank the following brands of traps? Newhouse, Montgomery, MB, Victor, Duke, Bridger, Sleepy Creek, Onieda, B&L ....and I know I'm forgetting some. Please rank them from most favorite to least favorite, forget cost.....just go with durability, and convenience.....
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I can't rank them because I haven't used every brand, every size for every furbearer.
I can offer what brand and what furbearer I trapped. Your opinion may differ. Traps are a personal choice.
I'll go in the order you listed...
Newhouse are mainly collector items nowadays. I still set a few #3 double LS for Fox and Coyote during the winter. This is just of ole time sake.
Montgomery's are well built. Great traps. I've used #2's CS (dog on) for Fox and Coyote. I may own a few and don't use Montgomery's now.
MB's, I never own any. But appear to be a well made trap.
Victor, I own a ton of #1 1/2's CS. Years back I used them for Fox. Great Fox trap. Poor Coyote trap. Also I used them for Coon, Muskrat & Mink. Nowadays, they are mainly Mink & Muskrat traps.
I own/use Victor conibears. 110's, 160's & 330's. 110's work well for Muskrats & Mink.
There are better traps on the market then Victor 160's & 330's.
Victor #1 LS & Stop Loss are the benchmark of a foothold Muskrat trap.
I own alot of #0's LS. They held up great over the years.
Bridger #2's CS & #3's CS is my mainstay for Coyote & Fox. They are easy to tune. Very little modifications needed.
Well built trap that holds up on my line. Built like the ole Northwoods, a trap I enjoyed using.
Bridger conibears work well.
Sleepy Creek, never own a foothold trap from SC.
Sleepy Creek conibears are the best I used. Strong springs. Great conibears.
Oneida, same as Victor.
Blake & Lamb, I have a lot of #0's LS I used for Weasel trapping. Good traps I've been using since a boy.
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;) ;) ;) ;) Thank You for your expertise.....I too like the Bridger's and never owned a MB.....seems like the MB design would make them heavy if you had to carry them very far...
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Hern, How many swivels do you have in a fox/coyote chain? I like at least two, what is your preference? :o :o
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I use short chain. 2 swivels are necessary for short chain, but I use 3. Over kill, extra expense for mid-line swivel, extra work rigging chain with 3 swivels, but I do it. Again, personal choice how many swivels one uses or how long a chain a person prefers.
I make many sets along a crop field where grass or weeds grow and they get mowed once or twice a year. After a catch, grass/weeds bind in chain swivels, resulting in chain binding causing foot damage. Am not going to sell 'the foot' of an animal, but don't want to hurt animal (furbearer or pet), just hold animal till I get there. If that makes any sense.
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Well I thought some others would ask some questions ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) but I guess everyone knows it all :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
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I would like to see others comment on these questions. As to how others use swivels or tune traps or what trap you use. We can all share ideas.
I was a Fox trapper with a lot of Victor #1 1/2 coil springs. Nowadays, I expect to catch a Coyote on every property I set. So I had to purchase larger traps, years ago.
When I switched from a Fox trap to a Coyote/Fox trap I bought #2 Montgomery CS and #2 Northwoods CS.
Over the seasons, I wanted to standardize my Canine traps to one brand.
Since Montgomery & Northwoods went out of business, I bought Bridger #2 CS. I sold the Montgomerys & Northwoods as I bought more Bridgers #2's. I added some Bridger #3's.
Using one brand of Canine trap has help me in a few ways. I know how to tune 'em up, I keep less parts since I use one brand, I am familiar with bedding the same trap & I'm never reaching for a certain trap or certain brand. Every trap is the same.
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Can't comment at all on most of the content here but will mention I bought a dozen Bridger 150s...just to dabble (again) for mink this coming season...from what I could gather they are solid traps..seems you may agree Hern...So, is there a modification that is a must ?..what is your favorite set? I plan on hitting some bridge abutment/wing walls..
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The Bridger 150 is 5"x5". Giving you an extra 5 square inches of opening over the 110.
Not sure modifications are needed. Mink, yes...read later.
But with most traps, adjustments and tuning are needed, even to conibears. You want a finely tuned trap working for you...
-Make sure dogs are straight (part with notches). Use large channel lock or vice to straighten.
-file rough burrs off sides of dogs and notches.
-With a round file, File notches so they meet with top of trigger clip. Don't enlarge notches, but make them cleaner for a crisp firing. Filing your dog notches will take the "slop" out in the trigger itself.
-Flatten your trigger clip by tapping it with a hammer, or the other by opening up the trigger clip with a nail.
This will give you less 'trigger travel' before trap fires.
That's how I've tuned up conibears.
*I did think of a modification you may want on you Mink Conibears...that is a trip wire.
By that, a wire or fishing line running from end of trigger to end of trigger. This method, Mink centers his head between triggers and it's chest hits trip wire and trap fires. Or purchase Hal Sullivan's circle trigger. Hal's triggers are designed in a circle to center Mink though jaws. Google these methods to see what fits your needs.
I was a go getter Mink trapper years ago. My favorite set was against a bridge wall. Blind set with footholds.
Thief can be a problem at some bridges. It ticks me off, but an unfortunate part of the game.
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Thanks Hern..I have seen the trigger wire mod too..I was going to use some braided stealth wire fishing line..as far as thieves, unfortunately they will always be around..some of these bridges are actually on private property so that may help some..
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At an early age, I learned how to tune a trap from my Uncle.
Quattro, here's a video on conibears, what I was explaining. But you may better understand proper conibear tuning and tweaking by watching video a few times.
The trigger tuning with nail to open gap (loosen trigger a bit) or hammer a bit tighter (if real loose from factory) and the notch filing round with 45 degree angle on front of notch is necessary with any/all conibear sizes. Also notice how the notch fits in the jaw perfectly. That's what is needed.
I think the guy used a large 330 for video so to show tuning better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGlkoCp07AE
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:o :o :o Hern you saying; "At an early age" .... :o :o :o :o :o that was along time ago!! :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
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lol
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Good thread!
Your in an area that has a good mix of reds, yotes, and cats.
Do you prefer standard jaws or offset and 2 coil or four coiled trap.
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Personal choice again, Fatdawg.
I use standard & offset jaws. Mainly off sets.
I use 2 & 4 coiled traps. Mainly 2 coil.
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I agree with Hern ,the 1 1/2 is an excellent fox trap especially for mountain trapping when its hard to dig a trap bed for anything larger.Do you think the heavier jawed coilspring traps are slower because of the extra mass?Does a 4 coil take more pan pressure to set it off?
I have used victors,B&L,Montgomeries,Northwoods .My personal choice would be the 1 3/4 victor for fox and coyote.Light, fast and strong.I haven't trapped since the 80's so maybe there are better options.
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Foxtrot, I use coil spring traps with laminated jaws. Heavier than stock traps. Good shape stock springs, new springs or music wire springs will do the trick.
I like #3 Bridgers (same size as Duke #4's). Big iron for sure, properly tuned up, with good springs... fast as lightning.
4 coil traps fire fast too. Adjust/tune pan pressure to your liking, with 2 or 4 coiled traps.
Pan pressure can be set on 'hair trigger' with 4 coils. Doesn't matter if weak 2 coil or strong 4 coil traps, tuning your traps to desire pan fall or pressure is what you are looking for.
In my area of Pennsylvania, I can't set a #1 1/2 because of Coyotes. I want to hold everyone, everything.
I would not consider setting a #1 1/2 in the mountains.
I recommend to students to use a larger trap and double stake or cable stake nowadays.
A good, over all trap for Pa. land trapping is a #2 Bridger (or equal size trap) for Reds, Greys, Coyote, Bobcat & Fisher.
If you can dig a bed for a #1 1/2, you can certainly get a #2 bedded. And a #2 will hold anything coming down the trail.
#2 will give you a bigger kill area (bigger pan) not to mention #3 being bigger & better on catch ratio.
This is just my opinion, experiences & observations. Yours may vary.
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The first coyotes I trapped back in the 80s were all caught with 1 1/2 victors because that what I had and they performed very well on the fox.Cross staked for coyotes and move the pan back a bit more from the hole.I don't think they had cable stakes at that time or the were a new concept that most were hesitant to try.I agree nowadays with the coyote population the way it is the 11/2 coils should probably stay in the shed.Do you feel the laminated jaws are needed?I never had any problems with bent or popped jaws but have seen others with some issues.The swiveling seems to help with that issue.
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Just thinking about how rare it was to catch coyotes in the 80s.I think the first one I caught in Pa was about 1987,42 lbs. It was tanned and hangs in the shop.Had a waiting list for them as everyone wanted a wall hanger.Nowadays people shoot them at let them lay.Sorry to get off track...
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Foxtrot, if you never had #1 1/2 jaw popped out or pull a single rebar stake & trap, you never caught too many Coyotes back then.
In the past 30 years, most trappers learned to upgrade equipment to hold all canines.
I caught my first Coyote in 1985, Northumberland County, Point Township, on Snyder's farm.
That Coyote pulled single stake and #2 Montgomery. Another trapper saw it, trailed it and shot it. Trapper thought it was his trap on Coyote so he gave hot pursuit. We knew one another and trapper gave trap back to me and I gave him Coyote for his effort.
I shot first Coyote while calling Fox the same season. Same township, but different end of Township on Epler's farm.
Laminated jaws...
Been laminating for almost 30 years. Am still not sure I prefer lamination...lol. My inventory is half laminated. Laminating jaws is for a better grip/hold and less foot damage. Nothing to do with bent jaws or jaw popping out. To prevent jaw from popping out, some folks spot weld the jaw tips at the frame, so they can't pull though. This is usually done on smaller traps that Coyotes beat up.
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Hern, I didn't catch a lot but then there wasn't a lot to be had.What do you think of the shock springs that some folks use on the chain?I never tried spot welding the ends of the jaws but I did bend the ends up where they went through the frame so they woulndn't pull out, seemed to work ok.
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I never used/tried shock springs on my chain.
I know some top notch trappers that use them.
I just thought it was more work to bury the extra shock springs, so never gave them a test.
Plus I check traps every 24 hours and didn't feel the need.
Some states have 48 hour check, 72 hour check or no check law, where a shock spring may offer an advantage for longer check period.
-Shock spring-
Attached to trap chain.
A spring designed to tighten/adsorb shock when Coyote pulls/lunges against stake anchor. Spring adds in trap damage & foot damage.
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My last sentence should read-
A spring designed to adsorb shock when Coyote pulls/lunges against stake anchor.
Spring aids in less trap damage & less foot damage.
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Hern,
With trapping season approaching you hear guys talking about collecting dry dirt mostly to prevent freeze ups.The question is do you think dry dirt helps in other ways such as eliminating the smell of freshly dug dirt that gives the canines the urge to dig??
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...do you think dry dirt helps in other ways such as eliminating the smell of freshly dug dirt that gives the canines the urge to dig??
Possibly.
This question has been debated since trapping began. I will offer my experiences and personal observations.
Fresh dirt smell attracts Predators, Groundhogs, Muskrats, Chipmunks & other critters.
I personally want a 'fresh dirt' smell at my early season dirt hole sets. I will use the dirt at hand.
Most 'fresh dirt' diggers are Raccoon. Or from poorly constructed set. Then you get a 'digger Fox'. But I've had 'digger Fox' using other trap covering material. So I feel that individual Fox will dig no matter what.
Personally, I don't eliminate fresh dirt smell, early season.
Dry, pre-sifted Dirt vs. Fresh Dirt
For many serious trappers, carrying along trap coving material (dry dirt to waxed dirt) is more for saving TIME.
I feel I can make a set FASTER with carry in trap covering. I don't have to look for 'extra dirt' when finishing a new set. Plus, I have my material weather proofed. No need to do that at set. Pre-season work is 80% of your success.
No need to carry a sifter. Dig trap bed, bed trap, pour on pre-sifted material, lure/bait, go.
Minute or minutes saved sifting at set location equals more sets one will be able to get in ground that day.
Pre-sifting dirt & peat moss or waxing dirt before the season, will save a trapper alot of time throughout the long season, opposed to sifting and anti-freezing at each set. Hence, speeding up set making.
Urine post set and Flat set was developed to blend in surroundings and to take animals with a natural set.
Blending is a bit more critical & pattern smaller on these two sets verses a showy dirt hole.
Dry, pre-sifted, dirt, Sifter Peat Moss, Grass Clippings, Waxed dirt
All are used for trap covering for speed and weather protection. And all are a personal choice.
Dry dirt alone is used for fall and extended periods of below freezing. Dry dirt is a poor choice of trap covering during rain/snow, freeze/thaw conditions. Dry dirt draws water like a sponge then will freeze solid during the night.
Early freeze up...the coldest part of the night is near day break. So dry dirt will work till dawn before frozen dirt slows trap action. Then morning Sun thaws. At this time in the season, dry dirt is iffy. Freeze proof sets must be considered.
If you haven't collected your dry dirt by now or pre-sifted you peat moss or gathered you dried grass clippings, you are already behind the eight ball. Be ready when the bell sounds.
Sift though this and I hope I covered your question.
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Lots of good information Hern. Do you prefer grass clippings or peat moss and what would the ratio be for each?The clippings one would think would be more natural smelling but maybe I over think things.If trapping the mountains maybe the peat would be better?
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I use alot of pre-sifted, dry Peat Moss. Straight Peat with light coating of dirt to finish or natural material to finish blending.
I purchase Peat now, for next year. I then cut a window out of large side of plastic. Then store for next season. With plastic open, Peat dries for next season. Saving me time (from drying) in the summer when I sift up Peat.
Dried Grass Clippings I use straight. On certain sets and locations.
When I gather ground from our woods to use and sift for trap covering...the woods ground smells like Peat or vice versa.
Peat used for mountain trapping is a good choice. And is weather proof to a degree, more so than dry dirt.
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Thanks Hern,A lot to sift through for sure..