Predator Hunting > Predator Biology
Increased coyote numbers and fox hunting practices
takemrarely:
So are we saying that there are no fox out west, where the coyote rules?
I really don't know the answer to your question, but like so many things that have been going on for thousands of years, the chances of this happening, (fox disappearing), in my lifetime seems extremely unlikely.
They have survived in the past and I would guess they will continue......
QUATTRO:
--- Quote from: takemrarely on April 03, 2015, 04:58:44 AM ---So are we saying that there are no fox out west, where the coyote rules?
I really don't know the answer to your question, but like so many things that have been going on for thousands of years, the chances of this happening, (fox disappearing), in my lifetime seems extremely unlikely.
They have survived in the past and I would guess they will continue......
--- End quote ---
I see you're point...didn't mean disappear altogether but there is definite evidence that in areas that are having increased coyote numbers there is a decrease in normal fox numbers as a result..that is nothing new..my question was in those particular areas should there be a change in how we harvest fox..and by"how we harvest" I mean as hunters ourselves...If you're a furtaker that is having your fox numbers plummet but there is a rise in coyote numbers, would the prudent thing be to target the coyotes and try to alleviate the predation on the fox?? or is it all a waste of time??
Hern:
...my question was in those particular areas should there be a change in how we harvest fox..and by"how we harvest" I mean as hunters ourselves...If you're a furtaker that is having your fox numbers plummet but there is a rise in coyote numbers, would the prudent thing be to target the coyotes and try to alleviate the predation on the fox??
Confusing situation when Coyotes move into your area.
First off, Fox & Coyote are two different animals to trap and hunt. Fox takers are still trying to kill Coyote using Fox methods. So there is a learning curve on how to work Coyote.
QUATTRO you are talking managing Coyote to co-exist with Red Fox by asking 'if it's prudent to target Coyote to save Fox.'
From my experiences, I would say No. No person in Pennsylvania.
As Coyotes creep into a void area (or your area), you would need an experienced Coyote man working on Coyotes throughout the year. By that, not just fur season, but denning season and late summer early fall. It would be continual work to keep their numbers down. If Coyotes are not in a persons area and they move in, it will take that person time to gain experience to kill Coyotes on a consistent basis. For the most part, time is on the Coyote's side before folks in that area gain knowledge to control Coyote population.
If you are good at trapping and calling Red Fox but Coyotes are moving in...Start learning about Coyote and how to kill them. Coyote population will level off at some point. Reds can be found in high traffic areas, tight to towns, industrial parks or malls as Coyote move in.
Thishere fur harvesting is ongoing learning for we Pennsylvanians.
I never had Beaver, in my area, to trap as a boy. They expanded their territory to my area and I had to learn to trap 'em.
We now have a Cable Restraint season, we learn. PGC now has a season on Bobcat and Fisher plus an upcoming Otter season. We learn.
I don't think you can alter your hunting practice to impact Coyote population. Learn to trap and call Coyote. It's what we have.
uncle buck:
something those coyotes...As the crow flys, not more then 1 1/2 mile away a trapper/predator caller you all know catches nothing but coyotes. Me I catch no coyotes but I hammer the red fox...every now and then I do pick a coyote up with the restraint...
Jerry Johnson always tells me that he wished that PPHA would have coyote contest since they, coyotes are hurting the fur trade big time for him...
Wonder if you harassed the heck out of coyotes ... would they leave the area.. Just thinking...
what I have noticed about the area that he gets all the coyotes...a few woodlots but wide open farm land... Wonder if coyotes like to be able to have wide open spaces and a few places to hide?? many of my areas have about the same equal of fields and wood lots...Now I have called on farms where he gets his and I have called them in to me from the wide open areas.. BUT...it's always after 11:00 PM.. Kind of like when human activity diminishes...
I was reading a computer generated book from a person called DOGBREATH.. he claimed when you call that you should call with cover behind you not an open area.. So when you call from one wood lot to another across a field make sure you have cover behind you....I wish that I had a dollar for every Cumberland county coyote that has used the farmers barns and sheds to come to my calling...Just think how smart that is?
scott:
once coyotes take over an area they are going to stay there until the food source runs out. PA is full of prey animals from birds, mice, to deer and house cats. Red fox that are in an area are there because of the food source, if you kill the red fox they will replace with other red fox because of the territory. This is why you can hammer the red fox on a farm because they will replace with others. Once coyotes move into an area they will run out or kill the reds, usually reds will move to a different area.
grey fox are family oriented and you can kill a family group and they may not replace for years. i have a small area where we killed 7 greys in one year and since then i haven't seen a grey there in years. Greys and coyotes, I think when the coyotes first came to the area greys would fight them and lose. I think they have learned to stay away from them.
Here are my thoughts, I have farms where i can walk in the the snow and see red fox track, grey fox tracks and some coyote tracks. but i think man with all these fox track why aren't we calling them in at night, they are here. i think the fox are getting call shy, not because of us but because if they run into a screaming rabbit they are thinking a coyote may be there not just a human. i think it is time to change things up alittle bit this year, i have some ideas we are going to try.
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