A question for UB or the old timers.

[furbug]

 When did the red lens become popular? Also, as a kid I hunted with a dim flashlight, and it was dim.
 Todays lights. I have went to vary dim lighting, just enough to see a good ID, at about 40 yards. Have done it 3 nights so far and called in more fur than usual.
 I tried the so called soft white led, nothing. Been splitting half the number of stands between red, and white, blueish led.
 Take your nite light and shine it around a room, with your dog in the room. I have made double red lenses and a dog can see it on the ceiling and walls.
 I really believe we have alot of predator hunters today. i think the coyotes that make it after December, become very educated, to light, and sound volume on e-callers.
 

[uncle buck]

It was way back in 1985 that I learned about the use of the red lens by Dennis Kirk...He also wrote books later on that said...No don't use the red lens light now use the yellow lens light.

See what happens is you can use a white light...However it's the intensity of it that scare away the game.  If you hit them with the direct beam, let say with one of the tactical lights you hurt their eyes just like the police hurt our eyes when we are calling.
The great Dennis Kirk does recommend that if you want to use a high intensity beam that you should shoot it over the horizon and the predator and slowly drop it until the bottom of the beam lights up the entire animal..Hence you don't blind them with a heavy white beam....

Heard from many a predator caller on here that if you want to use a white light that you have to also use a white light when your calling too..No mixing of the lights no using red lens on your head and then going to a white light to shoot or using a yellow lens  on your head and then go to a red lens or white light...We do use two lights.. One to hide behind + ID the animal  and one to shoot...Both should be the same color... Think of it as did you ever watch TV with out a light and then walk out into the kitchen and the bright lights are on...You start to squint...See this is what happens to both the hunter and the hunted...


I still use the red lens light a lot...However I know to keep my shooting light also red...If you use a yellow lens light to ID animals your shooting light should be yellow..And if your going to use a white light to ID animals your shooting light also needs to be white.. However no way should your white light be of such a high intensity that is scare away the animal...Keep the white light on low..use the rheostat to just light up the animal barely...The caller and the predator have to be accumulated to both lights being used.
In the USCG when they go to sea at night...The bridge where the ship is stirred or wheelhouse is lit up in a red light.  This helps them to see at night well on the bridge and see all the dials well.. However if someone turned on a white light just a bit they would all be blinded.   This is what happens to hunters and predators when you use to much white light or mix your lights.

truly by far if you can do it and know how to use just the right amount of white light that would be the best.. Since you can light up the entire animals instead of just the eyes..

[Hern]

I first went Fox calling with a friend of my father's. His name was Tom Patt from Warrensville (near Williamsport). That was in 1965, after deer season. Tom used a 'red lens' back in '65. I don't recall his rig.
I don't know when or who started using a red lens. These things get clouded in history as time passes. Some 'big name' may have made it popular, but he doesn't tell or say another thought of it or used it before him. Not saying one stole from the other, but information wasn't passed along when copied. It still happens today with marketing products and methods.
 
Buckwheat, hope you chime in on this post, it's up your alley...
Buckwheat (aka Ernie Wilson) has as much knowledge on 'lighting' as anyone I talk with.
He has practical field experience over the years. Not just 'message board' knowledge and B.S. and I read where this guy said to do it thisaway (2nd hand crap).
Buckwheat wore out some hunting boots.

[uncle buck]

I really did not want to divulge who my  source was when I referred to many other predator callers on here informed me not to mix a red light with a white light and vice versa  but it was Buckwheat.  He told me about how when you use the different lights that your no accumulated to the white light when you put it on to shoot...See he was right kind of made me think about things that I was not thinking about when it comes to long distance shooting at night with a rifle.

[Buckwheat]

Hern
Thanks for the nice words but, but I don’t know if you can say that lights are up my alley.
I’m not sure I like the word Alley in any conversation. I might get Alley apples thrown at me, more commonly known as red bricks by most city folk.

Hern and Uncle Buck as you know there is more to running a light then just the color of the lens. Running a light is kind of simple but it’s very hard if you do not have the basics down. There is so much confusing information out there about how to run a light at night it almost astounds me that a new Hunter can call anything in to get a clean shot. But when a new Hunter finally does get that shot at an animal they claim it is the only way to run a light to all that will listen from that day forward. One thing for sure lights are changing every year but the basic methods of running a light still remains the same. But the basic methods used by most are performed differently for many different reasons. I even hate to use the word basic, because the known basics are clouded today because of hunters not paying attention to correct details in the beginning and different types of animals and habitat.

There are a few basic mistakes most make. 1, is not using enough light. 2, not holding the light far enough out in front or lighting up your partner or bushes around you. 3. Improper method and speed of scanning. 4, not using light properly while approaching stand site are just a few of the basics that need improvements These 4 items alone can be talked about a lot and broken down one at a time. We can work on them one at a time and maybe everyone can learn. I am not sure I can spend all summer discussing this but I will do some if requested by people that truly want to learn.

The first one to discuss should be how much light and I will start it out.
My opinion, a hunter that uses not enough light assumes too many things. He is not seeing what is going on. He’s trying to estimate what is happening seeing two little tiny eyes moving around in the dark. (Example) When the eyes disappear did the animal go in a swale in the field or valley in the woods, or just decided to leave and not look back. It is anyone’s guess when there is not enough light. Without enough light you may not even know what those two little beady eyes are. I have seen others and I personally have had trouble until the animal gets close enough that the light showed the body outline. So I am a strong advocate for enough light for identifying your target. I started out hunting with a white light and it helped me a lot identify the eyes of what species of animal was approaching. Today everyone starting out is using the Red lens which I think you need more power and helps you to identify your animal.
So let’s keep this first part to how much light used discussion until everyone has had enough information on light power. Each animal and cover type will need to be covered. I am far from an expert on light use in all types of cover for different types of animals. I believe there are no experts in this field use of lights today. Especially in all the types of habitats but we will head in that direction if possible.
Ernie

[Hern]

BW, I know you and I stand in open (wide open) to call at night.
There is a varied terrain that folks hunt in Pennsylvania.
My questions...
-Does someone hunting deep woods, power lines, log landings, logging roads, Pine stands, brushy hillsides and woodline changes use a high, intense light?

-Because you use a bright light, are you hunting with shotgun or rifle? Or both?
What critters are you targeting with bright light?

-What is your average distance to Fox when you pull the trigger?
By that, are you shooting 80 -100 yards or under 35 yards?

-When Grey Fox or Raccoon call'n, where the animals are aggressive with close encounters, will a bright light be helpful over a lower power light?

Thanks Buckwheat, I love this stuff!
I hope others reply. Not too much advanced information on this site. Thanks again.

[Buckwheat]

HERN

BW, I know you and I stand in open (wide open) to call at night./quote]

I try to stand where I get the most field of view possible. That is not to say I always stand in the center of the field, but I do use the wide open as much as possible. I always try to use as much of a 360° shooting area as possible. With the least expected Route for a carnivore to approach to my back.

I prefer a light with a rheostat that gives me the ability to use as much light as I prefer on the stand location.

I hunt with a rifle, although a shotgun would be great in the right conditions. But it really bothers me to see a critter just out of range and I have a shotgun. So a rifle is my preferred weapon of choice.

Most of my shots I try to keep under a hundred yards. But I will take the shot when I think I can kill it or it is going to leave because it is headed downwind of my stand site. That can be over 200 yards away at times. When a coyote or red Fox gets less than 50 yards away my trigger finger gets pretty itchy with a rifle. Raccoons, Bobcats and gray fox the need to take the long shot are not as often needed. Shots 50 yards and in is more of the norm.
Ernie

[Buckwheat]

To the officers of PPHA
This board and PPHA needs to give me the ability to edit my posts. The post I made was to have only the part from Hern in the quoit.The paragraph below was to be on the post above. If this EDIT feature cannot be changed for me I will no longer post. I'm not a professional writer and make too many mistakes.

Most of my shots I try to keep under a hundred yards. But I will take the shot when I think I can kill it or it is going to leave because it is headed downwind of my stand site. That can be over 200 yards away at times. When a coyote or red Fox gets less than 50 yards away my trigger finger gets pretty itchy with a rifle. Raccoons, Bobcats and gray fox the need to take the long shot are not as often needed. Shots 50 yards and in is more of the norm.
Ernie

[foxpro51]

I agree all posters must have ability to edit post. No reason not to.

[furbug]

 What about bright white light? My new white led light spooks game.
It is a soft blue. So how can the new high powered LED lights not spook game also.
 I think its a good discussion since they will be having a demo at the expo.
2 hunters gave it bad reviews on other sites. One hunter called 7 fox into one stand
with one here in Pa.. But still uses a lightforce. Which i feel is a proven light here in Pa. Some hunters on HPA, purchased the Predator LED light also and have had little luck with them, and said they were near useless with red lense. When a red lense was added the light was to dim Beagler noted. Hopefully at the expo a red lense will be added to see if this light has enough power to Id, a target.

[Buckwheat]

furbug
I am not sure what light your are talking about. First you say bright white light, then you say your new led light spooks game, then you say it is a soft blue. Then you ask can the new high power LED lights not spook game. Then you go on and talk about some ones reviews on a light. Then reference the light force light.
Could you be more specific on what type the light we are talking about. If you are talking about more than one light let's keep them separate and name what they are.
New lights seam to be coming out on the market all the time. Who knows, someone might make a better LED night hunting light.
LED,s are the lighting source for the future it seems. I have just not seen any I like better then the Quartz light force as of yet. New things are coming out all the time so who knows what will be the new hot item.
Ernie

[uncle buck]

I have talked about this before on here...Those cheap head lights that are by the cash registers in Home Depot, Lowes, etc...Stay away from them...

From my experience there are going to be times that predators will cross in front of you and their eyes will not even shine...I even said on the This NEPA  PPHA get together  hunt that I could swear that I saw shadows coming to my calls but I just could not pick up the eyes.

What a shame too...I played with this coyotes brain....Here he comes in right in shotgun range...I put the shotgun up to let him have it and the cheap cash register light hits his eyes and he was gone in a instant.  I knew then I would only keep these in my hunting pocket for safety..Just say my go to hunting lights or light failed..I would put this cheap light on only for safety sake....

Buckwheat he Furbug may be talking about that light that does not have a battery pack..It just a head light with a rechargeable head.  Saw pictures of kill with the light...There the red fox, and the light, and then there is snow in the pictures..As you all know you don't need a light when there is snow on the ground...Most times?

However I am learning things from  Buckwheat on this post...Notice that his kills are at 50 yards and he gets a hairy trigger finger if they go beyond that...See many of us assume that all these lights that we can pick one off at 200 and 250 yards with a rifle..
Now do we want a 100 yard light for the 50 yard shot or do we want the 200 yard light for a 50 yard shot or do we want the   250 yard light for the 50 yard rifle shot?  Are we buying to much power and we should be using the 100 yard light So I  have killed fox at 50 yards with a shotgun already...Do I really want to use a rifle? Maybe I should stick to the scatter gun with Remington Hevishot since the kill area would be the same as a 50 yard rifle for night time predator hunting?
 

[Buckwheat]

uncle Buck

You must have read my post wrong, you say if I take most of my shots at 50 yards. I said my finger gets itchy at 50 yards.  I will shoot them from 25 yards to 300 yards.I prefer to take a shot at 50 yards so my bullet does not shoot over them when they get closer. I do not like compensating for holding under the target at these close ranges. I use as powerful light as I can use that way I can shoot from 25 yards to 300 yards, why handicap yourself with a cheap hundred yard light. Ernie

[uncle buck]

Ah good...Thanks for clearing that up Buckwheat!!!!!!

[scott]

I almost always use my wizzard headlamp with a red filter.  when i first started i had 2 reds come in and hung up at about 100 yards, they just sat there and looked at me and wouldn't come any closer.  they sat there for about 10 minutes ontop of a huge pile of dirt and their eyes appeard to blinking.  I had the shotgun and never got a close shot.  I was telling Rockfish about it and he said that my light was too much and they were blinking because the light even with a red filter was too much.  he told me to keep the light above them until i am ready to shoot then drop it on them, id and shoot.  that is what i have been doing for all of last year and it has worked for me.  i keep my light on high and keep them at the bottom of the halo, with my light on high i can id an animal out to about 50 yards which is effective shotgun range.   i have noticed that if i let them get under 50 yards when i drop the light on them they stop so it must be too bright.