Help/input

[QUATTRO]

Quattro
LOL might of been me that said shoot. But with this 17 hornet it would be in vain now. I aways used a 223 back then.

Of the few I've actually met from here, it very well could have been you!..perhaps just a younger version

[Buckwheat]

Quattro
The only reason I said it might have been me I always said you have to play to win. Meaning if you do not shoot you can never win.

[QUATTRO]

it probably was you..this was 6years ago or so..booth was next to night eyes and across from foxpro

[Buckwheat]

Quattro
I was there all week that year.

[Misterjake23]

Ernie,   Just curious,   Why don't you like to take head shots?  You know as well as I do how much of a tack driver the 17 hornet is.  The center of the target is the same size on the head as it is on the shoulder!!   I haven't met a 17 hornet shooter that can't put 3 shots in a quarter at 100 yards.  I'm assuming you can do the same with yours.  With that kind of accuracy, what's the hesitation??    I agree that a 300 yard shot is really pushing the limits for the 17 hornet.  However,  I've seen quite a few fox drop with head shots at 200.

[Buckwheat]

That's a big question.
Let's use a red fox head that we will give a dimension of roughly 3 inches by 3 Inches.
Let's assume we're out hunting and a Fox shows up in a hundred and fifty yards and won't come any further.
At 150 yards with a 8 mile an hour crosswind the 17 the bullet blow roughly 2 inches.
Most guns even the ones that shoot under a dime are really 3/4 inch group guns at a hundred yards. There are times we can do better but as an average you will find a 3/4 inch gun is there a realistic number. But I've hung out with a lot of people that a 1 inch and an inch and a half group gun is a realistic number. Even mine at times messing around is an 1 inch gun.
So right off the bat if you put the crosshairs right between the foxes eyes you are going to miss that Fox at that hundred and fifty yard range mark. You may even miss him at the 75 yard range mark.
Or worse yet you blows bottom jaw off if he's standing sideways or knock out maybe just a few teeth. That fox is still going to get away. And have a miserable existence after that.
This is under ideal shooting conditions. Guy shooting off shooting sticks and other half wit ideas you're going to miss a lot more and crippled a lot more.
So under real-life conditions in the field it's a bad spot to aim unless you have quality equipment and are really confident in your shooting ability. Even then it is probably a luck shot and a prayer anything past the hundred yard mark in the head.
In real life conditions we will have shots probably not  as steady as he thinks he is and a gun that doesn't shoot as good as he thinks it does.
Remember the math calculations for the shot were under ideal conditions in a controlled environment with the rifle solidly mounted.
So now let's look at the shoulder shot and heart lung area. You are now looking at our area that is around 6 inches by 6 inches. You have just simply doubled your odds of making a clean kill. There is more to this but that is enough to get the picture.

[Hern]

I agree with Buckwheat and not trying to be a smart ass.
Am not a good shot but figure my math is good.
Let's see...
Head shot- 3" x 3" = 9 square inches

Shoulder, heart, lung shot- 6" x 6" = 36 square inches

The shoulder, heart, lung shot is 4 times greater than a head shot. (just to boost Buckwheat's point)

[QUATTRO]

Seems most people I know say they are head shooters..and a lot of guys do quite well with it..I rarely take a head shot...just boiler room shots. Even with a dime shootin' 17 hornet..or any gun for that matter.

[Buckwheat]

Quattro
Let them keep shooting at there heads, there are no set rules. I have taken a few head shots when needed. But if I am in it to take more fur home head shots are a last resort.

[QUATTRO]

Quattro
Let them keep shooting at there heads, there are no set rules. I have taken a few head shots when needed. But if I am in it to take more fur home head shots are a last resort.

Well Ernie, as far as predator hunting goes, my name and the word prolific will never be mentioned in the same sentence but for the creatures I do manage to call in I feel the the odds tip to shoulder/heart/lung..and Amen to "no set rules"..that is an understatement at times..

[Buckwheat]

Quattro
There are people that take head shots on deer on a regular bases. They say it is to save meat.
They must be starving!!

[Misterjake23]

      Personally,  I'm a head shooter for fox.  This year I shot 3 aiming for heart and lungs.  I hit all 3.   All three ran off.  I was using the 17 hornet 25 gr hp from Hornady.   No more head shots for me.

     Each to there own.  I don't think there is a true right or wrong answer.  If it works for you, then do it.  After all,  a lot of shooting is mental,   If you're not mentally confident before the shot, you're already doomed to miss!!  That's one of the reasons I like to long range ground hog hunt.  It keeps my confidence high all year round.

[Hern]

jake, agree with shooting Groundhogs. I'll add Squirrels (with .22) to the list.
It's repeated and may sound corny, but shooting practice pays off. Confidence is gained when one becomes familiar with rifle, trigger pull, scope, loading & unloading.
Squirrel hunting with .22 has honed my rifle shooting skills. I've felt cocky and confident looking at the crosshairs. jake, so I know what you are saying about taking a head shot.
But I still pass on head shot Canines. I go for the larger target.

[Buckwheat]

Misterjake23
I know you are starting an interesting discussion on the forum. Signs of a good PPHA district officer.
This is what this site every now and then is good for.
Having a discussions on hunting and shooting methods is a good one. It helps people through other people's results and opinions. This gives people some insight on hunting redfox.
Over the years I have learned and changed a lot of my hunting methods. I like going with new people that know very little, I learn the most from them sometimes.
Things I took for granted and have not thought about for years jump out when hunting with them. Sometimes it even helps me adjust my thinking.
So!! If you are a head shooter or a body shooter on redfox just get good at either. I have learned after you get good at calling in them shooting is the next thing. If you can not hit what you call in you will never get better at taking redfox. All the good number guys hate to miss even one!!

[Misterjake23]

Buckwheat,
     
    Perhaps in this perfect world we live in, we should just call them all into shotgun range and never have to worry about body shots or headshots...... with s shotgun, just pull up and pray......  I mean shoot!!!  LOL

     I do agree that getting different opinions allows everyone to see all angles and make their own choices.   What works for one doesn't always work for all.