PPHA Forums
General Outdoors => Hunting => Topic started by: uncle buck on June 03, 2012, 04:01:41 PM
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What they are going to do to get Sunday Hunting is to Sue PA and say it Unconstitutional to not allow hunting on Sunday.
So if you want Sunday hunting you might want to give a few bucks...
http://www.huntsunday.com/
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Unclebuck
What kind of track record do these guys have and how much of the donated money will be used for salaries and expences?
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They arent no better then the USP then.
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I can already hunt on every Sunday of the year in Pennsylvania.
I would like to know just where in the Constitution it affords the right to hunt on Sundays!?
Seems like a bad way of going about this to me!!
Jeremiah
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FYI........
Group taking Sunday hunting battle to Pa. Supreme Court
By Bob Frye
Published: Tuesday, May 29, 2012, 12:30 a.m.
Updated 17 hours ago
The fight to bring Sunday hunting to Pennsylvania is not over yet.
A grassroots sportsmen’s coalition called Hunters United for Sunday Hunting is preparing to take the battle to the courts rather than the legislature.
The group expects to sign a contract with an attorney within a few weeks, with the intention of going to the Pennsylvania Supreme Court with its case no later than July.
“We seek to re-establish hunting as a constitutional right and abolish the Sunday hunting ban at the same time,” said Kathy Davis of Speers in Washington County, one of the group’s volunteers. “That is our goal.
The was also the goal of the National Rifle Association, U.S. Sportsmen’s Alliance, National Shooting Sports Foundation and others last year when they put on a major push to convince state lawmakers to pass a bill that would have allowed the Pennsylvania Game Commission to decide if and when to include Sundays in hunting seasons. But the bill never even came up for a vote.
That seemed to be the last chance for Sunday hunting advocates, at least for a while. But Hunters United for Sunday Hunting isn’t giving up.
In fact, the group is optimistic long-standing law and some more recent U.S. Supreme Court decisions make this the perfect time to take on the Sunday hunting ban.
The fight will be expensive, though. The group estimates it will need $70,000 to $150,000 to wage a legal battle. It’s asking sportsmen to foot the bill.
“We want this to be a grassroots movement, and we want every Joe Hunter who contributes to have as much say as the next, whether they contribute $5 or $500,” Davis said.
The group collected more than $7,000 in its first two weeks. That’s enough to get started, and Davis and her fellow volunteers hope the suit will succeed where proposed legislation failed.
“Lawmakers had 25-plus years to act on this and they did not, so we’re going to take it out of their hands and go straight to the courts,” Davis said.
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The only one that gets paid is the lawyer! They will use money for P O Box etc too. I know today they were $55 shy of $10,000.00 to date in contributions.
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This might be another way to get to hunt bobcat and coon on Sunday!??????
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Imo its still the wrong way to go about. Fight it through legislature dont ram it down someones throat through the courts. What happens if their suit fails and the courts rule in favor of the pgc?
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No see the PGC wants it! It's the state legislature that didn't even vote on it when it was up for vote. Kind of like what Sen Harry Reed is doing on proposal in the senate! They, state just not even voting on it. Win or lose it's a way to by pass the law makers.
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the only problem with sunday hunting, you are going to end up with shorter seasons. sunday being a high particiation day would make rifle season for deer about a week. also archery season may go back to the original month, usually it was the month of October. be careful what you wish for.
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Count me in....all those knee jerk individuals like your father and your grandfather and their ilk..what did they know???..denied little kids the right to hunt till they were twelve..I was Pissed waiting...I remember when I was twelve..I was a freeken genius and safe to boot...and banning Sunday hunting, what were they thinking???..Boys!!church!!! my mother would ruin Sunday am's like this...who cares what farmers want or think...they don't own the game the govenor does or the king or somebody ...so why not add an extra $20.00 bucks to have a special Sunday permit...PGC will definately fight for that...I propose 365 day..24/7 hunting...screw the general public....deer hunting in July..get me a fat doe and a milk fed bambi...just like veal....not so much pressure if they spread it out a bit..YEP going to send my 2cents in tomorrow..get this thing rolling..on second thought maybe not... 8)
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jaspr1, a bit sarcastic but some good points.You better believe there will be a cost.Who pays for the PGC legal fees?Who pays for the additional law enforcement on sunday?Some things are worth a fight but I'm not sure this is one of them.
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I admit being a bit facetious.. ::) My point being... back in the day when everyone hunted and trapped and game was a part of the supper routine, you would have thought Sunday hunting would have been part of the program.. These people, like my father and grandfather lived much closer to the land and set one day aside for peace and quiet..This was in keeping with Christian principles I admit, but my father wasn't a church person and I never heard him utter a word about not being able to hunt on Sunday..This is 2012 and we share the planet with a lot of people who think meat is manufactured in the back of a deli, they have no concept of harvesting animals for food. Fortunately for those of us who pursue sport hunting they are largely neutral or fully support us. I think pushing for a total access to Sunday hunting could really backfire here...Most farmers are opposed to this and with Peta and Humane society of US and others waiting for anything remotely making us look bad, and arguing with landowners, mtn. bikers ,birders,hikers and camera buffs just might, we will lose this fight. JMO 8)
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100% agreed with jasprs last post
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But! How do you expect to get to shoot coon, bobcat, weasel, skunks and possum on Sunday if PPHA doesn't support this?????this is a chance to improve predator hunting in the state as we presently know it. That's what PPHA is for.
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But! ;) What if I was a camera buff who liked to take pictures of wildlife...and I said ok I'm for Sunday hunting..... I'm also a taxpayer and would like some use of the fields and forest to pursue my hobby. So! I propose that hunting be allowed everywhere Mon. thru Fri. and on Sat. and Sun. you can only hunt on SGL's and private property open to hunting....and the rest of us birders, hikers, camera buffs get to use State Forest lands and Parks and private ground (opposed to hunting)which would be closed to hunting on weekends. Stand right up there and offer this compromise with the media in attendance...could end up worse than some think it is now.... 8)
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UB,
First off please do not take this personal, but!!
Could you please give me a count of the coon, bobcat, weasel, skunks and possum that you shot (while hunting not trapping) this past season. Then please tell me how many more of each species you could possibly harvest this year if you could hunt them on Sunday's also.
This organization is barking up the wrong tree with their approach and I will not support it.
To comment on your last comment, Yes the PPHA is supposed to be for improving predator hunting in PA.
So lets see some support and actually have the PPHA go to legislature for some improvements in Predator hunting.
There is plenty of issues that could be fought for and as far as I know there is not a single legal issue that the PPHA is trying to change at this time. I may be totally wrong by saying that, but if I am then someone please tell me.
Here is a list of changes that I feel the PPHA should be fighting for to improve predator hunting in PA.
1. Mentored youth to be allowed to hunt all fur bearers instead of just coyote. (As it stands now I can take a mentored youth hunting at night and if a fox, raccoon, opossum, skunk or weasel responds to the calling set the youth cannot legally shoot it.)
2. Recombine bobcat hunting and trapping seasons. (Trappers have first dibbs on cats and this is not fair)
3. Create a hunting season for fisher. (Fisher will respond to distress calls and they can be legally trapped, so why not a hunting season?)
4. Legalization of bait and electronic decoys for crows. (Crows cause alot of damage to small game and nesting bird populations, the Migratory Bird Treaty Act only regulates how seasons are held and places no regulation on decoys or the use of bait.
5. Allow hunting of coyote durring Spring turkey hours with furbearer license. (Just like deer season you should be able to hunt coyote with a furbearers license if you turkey tags are already filled.
When you get these 5 accomplished then contact me and ill give you another 5 that are way more important that hunting coon, bobcat, weasel, skunks and possum on Sunday's.
Jeremiah
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I think its time for someone to step up and help fight your issues jeremiah. You availible.
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Ben,
First off these should not only be my issues. Anybody who cares about the future of predator hunting in PA should be able to see the importance of these issues.
Second if I was available I would have ran for one office or another in the PPHA. I did not because I realize that I do not have the time to do so. But I have in the past support this organization that should be taking the time to fight for something. I was just making a point to UB that there are way more important things that should be fought for than sunday hunting of coon, bobcat, opossum, and weasel.
And since you seem to want to pass the buck to me since I brought up the truth please answer me this question. Seriously, what is the PPHA fighting for right now? This is not my job to step up, I did not accept any office in the organization or even ask for one. The organized officers of this organization need to step up and fight for something that will benefit predator hunters in this state.
Jeremiah
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Now retired and hunting predators 27 years now I hunt Sunday nights all the time for fox and coyotes. Yes I have called in coon on Sunday nights. I also see skunks and possums on Sundays too but you just can't shoot them if you desire. Truly what is important for one is not important for others. That's a person right!
Even on non Sunday hunts I don't shoot coon, skunks and possums. However some Pennsylvania hunters would like too . I'm saying this is a chance for PPHA to get yet another privilege for Pa Predator Hunters.
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Because this isn't about hunting predators....that can already be done
And to quote Forrest Gump...."And thats about all I have to say about that"
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And since you seem to want to pass the buck to me since I brought up the truth please answer me this question. Seriously, what is the PPHA fighting for right now? This is not my job to step up, I did not accept any office in the organization or even ask for one. The organized officers of this organization need to step up and fight for something that will benefit predator hunters in this state.
Jeremiah
First off tim has asked for volunteers in the past and no one has stepped up. Its obvious you dont know the time commitments it takes to fight in harrisburg. Those that have volunteered their time thus far have dedicated time to the ppha as much as they are physically able. And if you feel froggy about calling people out maybe you ought to jump. JMO.
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Ben,
So I take it by your answer that nothing is being fought for by the current administration, or is going to be fought for durring their term.
I have been a law enforcement officer for over 12 years and I "DO" know the time it takes to fight for something in legislature(most likely way better than you). Once again I did not run for an office in the PPHA for a reason. That reason is I acknowledge that I do not physically have the time need to put into this.
I started commenting to this post with straight up truth and made recommendations of better law changes to fight for than Sunday hunting. Because of this you have turned this into a passing the buck contest. This will be my last post about this subject, but I do feel that the PPHA needs to get back to the meaning behind the organization and that is fighting for improvement in predator hunting in PA. People seem to have the time to organize picinics, snake hunts, fishing trips, camp outs and calling contests that only benefit a very small percentage of the PPHA membership. Though there is no time to organize and commit to something that does not involve fun for those involved.
I have not renewed my membership this year due to waiting to see of things were going to change, but I guess they are not. I will not be renewing my membership and I will also take my sponsorship dollars elsewhere if things do not change.
Good luck with the approach of if you want something done then go do it yourself. I think this system will get you really far.
Jeremiah
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I started commenting to this post with straight up truth and made recommendations of better law changes to fight for than Sunday hunting. Because of this you have turned this into a passing the buck contest. This will be my last post about this subject, but I do feel that the PPHA needs to get back to the meaning behind the organization and that is fighting for improvement in predator hunting in PA. People seem to have the time to organize picinics, snake hunts, fishing trips, camp outs and calling contests that only benefit a very small percentage of the PPHA membership. Though there is no time to organize and commit to something that does not involve fun for those involved.
I think that is the first time I ever heard of a person complaining about a volunteer putting forth effort to hold events that all members are invited to by the way. not only a select few. you obviously have never been to one of these gatherings and really do not understand really what the association is about. you just don't get it. and probably never will. ::)
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Jaspr1
You have some good points. I always like reading your stuff.
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I would love to be able to hunt on sundays due to my kids sports schedules, work deadlines, and family commitments. I wouldn't mind paying an additional 20 or 30 dollars a year to do this. It should be put up for a vote. Right now, I have exactly zero time during the week and Saturdays, unless I want to fall asleep on a saturday night out in some forest at 11pm at night, because I have been running non stop since 5:30am that morning. Can't shoot what I don't see! I don't know what everyone's schedule is, but mine is 50-60 hours a week working, an additional 12-15 hours for the kids, not counting the wife, and then any other activities that I can cram in!
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Coyotes—
(During any big game season) May be taken while lawfully hunting big game or with a furtaker’s license
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Concerning this post. The PPHA is not currently pursuing any issues in legislation nor is the PPHA currently communicating any predator hunting concerns to any organization, State Representative, State Senator, Game and Fisheries Committee or Game Commission. I simply can not do it alone. I have asked for help several times but have received none. Yes, sometimes if you want something done you have to do it yourself. I have questioned legislators about Sunday hunting, semi-auto's and several other issues as a fact finding mission on my own. It is my opinion that you do need help in numbers to succeed with these issues and thats were it ends for most. Why do you think it is that the organizations that are making waves are asking for money? Big issues take big money! Heck, every issue takes money! I could go on forever but I will stop there. I am stepping down at the end of my term (September) and I hope others will have better luck than I.
Uncle Buck is not a PPHA member anymore and does not represent the PPHA but is entitled to his opinion. Boondock Outdoors sponsorship has expired and is not a current sponsor, however is also entitled to his opinion. These and others who post on this forum are good people just expressing those opinions. We are very passionate about predator hunting and it shows. We would love to have people like this back in our organization, however only if they choose.
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Very well said Tim....
Time is a factor to all of us no matter which side of the fence you are on. And always remember that unless we are pushed into a battle, we are volunteers who choose what fights we engage in. If we had the capital and employed numerous people, then I would say why haven't we engaged in an issue to change something.....but that's not the case here.....these folks are VOLUNTEERS ;)
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Wow. these negitive posts are very upsetting. Truely a shame for the future of the PPHA, through which, I have met some outstanding people
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Wow. these negitive posts are very upsetting. Truely a shame for the future of the PPHA, through which, I have met some outstanding people
I agree
Shame some offer no suggestion till theyre on their way out of the association
Officers, I appreciate everything you do, its a tough job....and you guys do great
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YEP, it is a fact that you can not please everyone. I think it would be great if a PPHA volunteers would be doing more too. Howvere the guys that give of there time freely to help other in our sport no matter what they can get done need to be thanked for what they do no matter what the none volunteer people or members think. HECK! with out our PPHA volunteer people there would be nothing for other people to complain about. So I would like to thank everyone and look forward meeting more great people and having fun at any events the future volunteers can pull together in there busy schedule and maybe change a few laws if the right volunteers can ever find enough time. But for now i am pretty happy just to be able to hunt with a gun mounted light and have fun with other PPHA members. So thanks again volunteers, you guys are the best in our sport.
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I'll be honest, I volunteered to help out more and I was gonna do this and do that but then the crap hit the fan and I definitely let some people down there so I can say first hand how easy it is to SAY you'll help but how hard it is to actually do it. hopefully in the near future I'll be able to help more but there are some really good points here also. Gotta take it both ways really.
A little harsh guys but the truth is, it really is Constructive Criticism.
Gotta take it and build on it.
Ryan.
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Jeremiah after posting one of the most thought out views I have read in a long while...you are going to drop out??? I was going to quit ,couple of years ago, as a matter of fact, Ben called me....Ben is Ben...he doesn't need me to defend him but I would like to say this....he is passionate about the PPHA. He is, along with others, the core GLUE that keeps this thing floating...Ben would call his own mother out if he thought it would work and any other member of the PPHA, he is an Equal Opportunity caller outer...;D...I thought your post was just the kind of thing we needed to get a positive dialog going...better than my post for sure...its turned into a disaster and it never should have...One of the big problems as I see it, as a group we are really spread out and its hard to get face to face meetings...hell this group, even in their own districts, can't seem to get together for a coffee and donut Sat morning Bull session....I AM AS GUILTY AS EVERYONE ELSE, just should state that for the record...The very best point of your post was the first sentence...."DON'T TAKE THIS PERSONAL"....exactly! My own brother and friend dropped out...."I can buy my own subscription to Predator Extreme"... nice attitude!! This is the "Log Chain Theory" at its best...push the chain its useless...pull the chain and the purpose is served...to much pushing and not enought pulling together...JMO 8) ps:I would like to add Ben is direct...no BS...I was there at a PPHA event when he sank the boat that "rockfish" said was unsinkable!! Ben got up walked to said boat and sank it with one hand...LOL...he is my hero and I will send in my dues as long as he is on board... ;D ;D just sayin!
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As well to add im not saying that jeremiahs points are not good. I cant say anything other then what i did. We ask for volunteers and no one steps up. Or they step up and dissapear when the real work needs done. I wonder how much gal that fishes or dutch would be pushing the issue if they were doing it on their own dime?
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I love all the volunteers an I hate the fact that Tim is stepping down he will be missed. Tim is one of the guys why I joined. Going to these events that are nothing else but fun an enjoyable is the other. That is what this club is about to me. We need to get back to what matters the members an good memories
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Ben,
Nice to see you over here talking behind my back rather than asking me directly to my face. Pretty manly of you. You could have at least said it to me in a PM over on HPA. (this is Kathy, aka gal) :)
Lots of my time and money are into this, as well as Brad's. Add the wear and tear on my car, phone bills and hundreds if not thousands of hours, and it all adds up- in addition to "MY DIME".
Should Dutch and I mortage our homes and say to heck with our daughter's college educations to pay for this solo? I mean, why have a PPHA. Why don't YOU pay for it all on YOUR dime? Heck, why dont you have a jamboree for all of the PPHA members, and YOU pay for it all; including lodging in a nice hotel in addition to all of the work involved. ABSURD.
Now that that is cleared up- we'll get to the facts.
This isn't a USP type case.
Here, we have a wildlife agency that WANTS to regulate Sunday Hunting. Don Heckman and I talked to Carl Roe about it before we made a move; and the agency had NO PROBLEM with it. Vern Ross, former PGC executive Director is on our advisory staff.
Our first PA Constitution said "The inhabitants shall have the liberty to hunt and fowl in all seasonable times on land they hold and all other land therein not inclosed; and likewise; to fish in all boatable waters and others not private property"
Hunting was lawful on Sunday until 1873. In fact, even the quakers approved of hunting on Sunday. But I'm sure you read that over on HPA.
While we may have to NAME the PGC in the case, it isnt them who we are taking to court. Its the legislature- who won't remove the proibition and allow the PGC to regulate it. Its an unlawful law that is limiting the amount of quality time families can spend afield.
If we can drink, gamble, or do any of those things on Sunday, we should be able to hunt. Hunting is one of the greatest opportunities for familes to spend quality time together.
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First off i didnt talk behind your back. Second off you have no idea what i have done for this association and what i have paid out of my pocket to go to events/host events. Third off you totally missed the point i was trying to make and obviously you didnt comprehend it the first time and doubt you'll get it if i explain it to you
Ben,
Nice to see you over here talking behind my back rather than asking me directly to my face. Pretty manly of you. You could have at least said it to me in a PM over on HPA. (this is Kathy, aka gal) :)
Lots of my time and money are into this, as well as Brad's. Add the wear and tear on my car, phone bills and hundreds if not thousands of hours, and it all adds up- in addition to "MY DIME".
Should Dutch and I mortage our homes and say to heck with our daughter's college educations to pay for this solo? I mean, why have a PPHA. Why don't YOU pay for it all on YOUR dime? Heck, why dont you have a jamboree for all of the PPHA members, and YOU pay for it all; including lodging in a nice hotel in addition to all of the work involved. ABSURD.
Hunting was lawful on Sunday until 1873. In fact, even the quakers approved of hunting on Sunday. But I'm sure you read that over on HPA.
And to tell you the truth i have not read about it on hpa.
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"If we can drink, gamble, or do any of those things on Sunday, we should be able to hunt. Hunting is one of the greatest opportunities for familes to spend quality time together."
Kathy...don't come over here bashing Ben.....because you see that part in Bold....YOU CAN HUNT SUNDAYS....
Just not for what YOU want to.
Ben has worked very hard (as well as some others) for hunting as well.
I don't believe for one second he was "talking behind your back"
So do tell, are you being reimbursed for your expenses? (and no one is saying you shouldn't)
As stated on another site, I still am confused on why restitution would be asked for unless it is money personally lost, if donations are paying for this, will the donors get their money back? Where would the money go?
I guess I have a problem with monetary lawsuits against the Gov. mainly because I am a hunter and taxpayer, so either way I lose double
The fact that supporters are permitted to post links and such on a "association forum board" says alot for the PPHA.
Did you help support removing orange regulations for coyote hunting? Determining shot size? How about anything at all for predator hunters?
There have been folks on here trying for other species such as coon and bobcat on Sundays for a few years. I didn't see you jump on and help the PPHA with that.
What happened in 1873 to restrict Sunday hunting?
What happened to restrict hunting as a right?
I am speaking as a hunter as I have been hunting for almost 30 years.
To jump up and slap someone as hard working as Ben doesn't do well in the community youre seeking support in.
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I am the only moderator on this board, lets keep this civil or everyone goes
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I take it you don't pay attention at Commission meetings?. ::)
Yes, I have asked for expanded opportunities for bobcat. And what do you think Hunters United for Sunday hunting is? It requires a legislative process to add Sundays - and that was what HB 1760 would have done, would it not? I recall giving testimony at those hearings, and didn't exclude any hunters. It should be the PGC having the regulatory authority to determine what species should be hunted.
I have yet to be reimbursed for anything I have spent to this point, although I had a donor who paid for my gas and tolls- and its still in the HUSH checking account. Yes, reasonable expenses are allowed with approval of the board. To this point, however; I have not taken a dime.
And YES, I know hunting SOME species is lawful. However, laws must be FAIRLY APPLIED. See THOSE words in bold?
Please tell me, what do I want to hunt on Sunday? I don't recall ever saying I wanted to hunt anything. Guess you got an A plus in Ross Lefler School of mind reading.
This case will be filed - and the courts will make the call.
As to reimbursement, perhaps you can tell me in what context that was said? I take it you oppose the NRA being reimbursed by the court for the Heller case, or McDonald v. Chicago? How about HSUS or PETA and the more than 9 million dollars they have gotten in PA courts alone for LOSSES? Do you think perhaps there is a loophole there they are using that needs to be closed? I certainly do.
If there is a reimbursement by the court, it would go where it belongs and as its written in our articles of dissolution- to hunter advocacy ALL OF IT,- and the first 50% goes to the PFSC.
I appreciate the work Ben has done for hunter advocacy. I never knocked him for that. Too few people stand up for hunting in any regard anymore. Frankly, I'm sick and tired of hunters fighting against other hunters. But, I am also going to defend myself when someone who thinks I can't see what they are saying about me doesn't have the guts to say it to my face.
The crap needs to end.
You don't like or want Sunday hunting, fine. Attack the issue. Quit attacking the person. But if you feel you must Shawn and Ben, at least you picked a girl who can take it and will fight back.
Not how I want it- but the choice is up to you.
Now, if you'd like to discuss the issues like a gentleman, I'd much prefer that.
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You still dont get it. Talk to dutch. I replied to his puffed out chest pm on hpa. Im sure your on the phone talking to him about me calling you out using a "rhetorical" question. What i was getting at was why should jeremiah expect a volunteer officer that gets nothing but critism to spend his own money in harrisburg for someone who isnt grateful for what they allready have considering jeremiah prob wouldnt have a gun mounted light market in pa if it wasnt for the ppha fighting for it. You guys prob wouldnt be fighting for sunday hunting if you were not going to be reimbursed at some point would you? Exactly. Im not saying you shouldnt be reimbursed. If you still dont get it i give up. Maybe ub can help ya idk.
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And seeing how you were the one to come here and be the agressor even though you have no clue of the service i or any other officer has done here it would be nice if you think next time before you come on the ppha board knocking its officers. Thank you
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You are the one who said I was no better than USP, Ben.
Look, I don't want to fight- but dang it; this hunter v. hunter has to end.
The legislature has had 20 years to deal with Sunday hunting- longer in reality- and they continue to drop the ball.
Now, some members of the legislature are telling me they are GLAD this monkey will be off their back by us taking it to the court.
When certain stores were closed on Sunday becuase the legislature said they had to be, it took courageous store owners to take it to court, where they WON because it didn't serve a valid secular purpose and the law wasn't being fairly applied. The same is happening to hunting, but for some reason, some hunters are afraid to stand up for hunting.
I'm not.
I'm taking this challenge to the court for every hunter, be it a predator hunter, or a deer, or turkey or crossbow or longbow hunter, small game hunters- makes NO difference. We're all hunters, and hunters from each and every group support this issue. I think of it as a hunter uniting issue beause no one will be forced to hunt if the don't want to- but it has support from every walk of the hunting community. When is the last time that happened?
Each of our groups who want to hunt on Sunday (or not), once this case is won, will need to present their case to the Pennsylvania Game Commission, the regulatory agency where the choice belongs. It does NOT belong in the hands of the legislature who doesn't want to take any action on this issue for fear of ticking the other side off.
Carl Roe himself said WCOs already work Sunday. They have no fear of overhunting because season length AND allocation drives harvest. All this will do is place the agency in charge of hunting; in charge of hunting everything 7 days a week.
Laws must be fairly applied. Remember that.
And if you want to talk "costs"; it cost the legislature somewhere in the $100,000 neighborhood to hold three hearings last year in per-diems for the legislators, their staffers, trips associated, food, etc. That was three meetings- and this has been going on for decades.
What is the cost to the state? Little in comparison. The AG's office staff and the Court Justices are already paid, as are agency personnel.
Cost to hunters? Whatever its worth to them; be it $5 or $500. They know they aren't getting a refund; but if there is money left it goes to hunter advocacy- that is a win for all of us.
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Wow thats what Your upset about. ::). Goodnight kathy hope your fight for sunday hunting goes well
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Well Kathy, I have yet to make anything personal...apparently you decided to.
I asked simple questions and made statements.
So, by your statement, I am not allowed to question or have an opinion.
I have never used any official position of mine for gain or to pose an opinion
I was simply stating fact that you said that everyone should be able to hunt Sundays and I was commenting that EVERYONE with a hunting license can hunt on Sun.
Now as for your snide remarks about Bobcat, I posed the question where were you before because there have been several hunters (PPHA members as well) who were speaking to legislators years before 1760 was being drafted. It was being shot down at that time, because of the tons of complaints from hunters on deer numbers and the fear that any additional SH would lead to SH for deer (yep straight from members of the House GFC).
So....if I was totally against SH as you so seem to read my mind, explain why I spent my money, my time and used my own personal items to try and get more species added to SH?
I also have never stood pounding my chest demanding people belive my way is the only way.
You will (and should) have your day in court
And for your questions about agreeing with the decisions for all those reimbursements from the Govt...yep because again....restitution doesnt come from a magical money tree, it comes from all of us...the taxpayers. Sorry, I'm not a huge fan of monetary suits, especially when the innocent have to pay the bill.
BTW I used the word "You" not meaning Kathy Davis personally, I meant "you" the folks advocating for reversing no SH.
So to add to what Ben said, no one here made it personal, it seemed you came looking for a fight and took a lot out of context as to what was said.
As an organization, we are a pretty tight knit group and look out for each other, much as I am sure those in the HUSH organization would be if someone came on your FB page and started blasting the efforts of one of your members
I don't speak for the PGC, and as a hunter(I pay for all my licenses as well) I have that right to speak my mind and my opinion. It seems you feel I shouldnt have that right.
When asked about "commission business" I give the response that I am to give or just keep quiet. I have never said, "I am a WCO and this is how it should be"
I use these forum boards on my own time, on my personal PC. And as such am entitled to my personal opinions on matters.
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Please show me where I said you can't speak for yourself Shawn? I missed it. Same with wondering where I was "snide" about bobcats? All I said was one sentence- "Yes, I have asked for expanded opportunities for bobcat."
I think everyone is entitled to an opinion, provided they can be expressed in civil terms. Saying someone is acting like USP when that isn't true isn't civil. Its that kind of thing that needs to end.
To answer your question, I did not speak to the legislature about bobcat alone, as it was never on my radar that anyone wanted it added. Had I known, I certainly would have done so. If I recall correctly, and I'll check with Roxanne, I was the only person to ask for bobcat to be expanded to WMU 2A a couple of years back. Between the number of roadkill I was seeing, and the numbers I was calling in when coyote hunting, a season there was certainly warranted- Why didn't you ask me to put in a plug?? You know I'm at the capitol often, and I'd have gladly done so.
I did speak favorably about Godshall's woodchuck on Sunday bill; and every other SH bill in the last decade.
I also worked hard for, and Brad and I wrote the mentored transfer legislation. Did you know it can include bobcat, or any species a tag is needed for? Its the way we wrote it, so it could be expanded by the agency, and each species wouldn't require its own legislation. We have another bill for mentored adults- since we wrote it its passed in Virginia and Michigan; Florida and Texas I believe, but not here in PA. We're working on that too.
In fact, we work for everything positive about hunting; removing legislative barriers and extending more flexibility to the agency; and fighting some of the bad stuff that takes it away or puts it in jeapordy.
This case is going to be fairly straight forward. As I said before, laws must be fairly applied. In this case, they aren't; because as was pointed out, some species are lawful on Sunday and others are not. It no longer serves a valid secular purpose, and the laws are pro SH for so many species; that it can't be upheld to excude some- just like the Sunday trading laws.
In this instance; the agency approves of having regulatoty authority. Its kind of like taking someone to court who admitted they hit your car, but their insurance company refuses to pay. We know its not the PGC who has to change the law- its the legislature- but the way its set up; we will likely have to name the PGC even tho they can't change it, and they want it. It has me shaking my head too.
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So what is it again that the PPHA is fighting for right now, again? not trying to stir the pot just trying for some clarity.
Ryan.
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Nothing at the moment. This whole mess was created from several individual comments and do not represent the PPHA in any manner.
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Nothing at the moment. This whole mess was created from several individual comments and do not represent the PPHA in any manner.
Thanks! and yes, crazy.
Ryan.
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I am the only moderator on this board, lets keep this civil or everyone goes
Leglifter, I think its time this 'huntsunday' kathy davis goes. What a way to push your agenda! No respect from me...
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HuntSunday certainly promotes a solipsistic philosophy, but I don't think she should be banned. JMO 8)
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Back in the day, if you had something to discuss with someone, you called them on the telephone......
just sayin'
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Nobody uses that thing hangin on the wall anymore.Even if your in the same room they would sooner text you than talk to you.
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Nobody uses that thing hangin on the wall anymore.Even if your in the same room they would sooner text you than talk to you.
Aint that the truth
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I gotta get over here more often. That was good. ;)
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Just got the October issue of Peterson"s HUNTING. Page 16-About 1/4 page on Hunt Sunday going to court.
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I respect everyone's right to their opinon but personally I am opposed to Sunday hunting.
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I have several thoughts on this topic. Some will not be liked but I have the right to voice my opinion the same as the next guy.
I feel that for the future of hunting I would prefer a father, mother or child having the weekend to hunt instead of just Saturday. I'm all for regular Rifle season for deer, bear and spring gobbler not allowing Sunday hunting because I feel those are the most common animals illegally taken. It makes no sense to not allow all varmints and nuisance animals to be harvested seven days a week especially when special permits are bought (furtakers). The biggest opposition are one of the biggest cry babies towards unfair treatment and that is the farmers. Most are looking for tax breaks and anything else they can get to turn profits. In a sense they get their cake and eat it to and get reimbursed if it taste bad. If they are opposed to the harvesting of animals that hurt crop production or cause property damage then they should lose all tax write offs and federal assistance for doing so. they point is that it you are opposed to the solution to your problem then it's your problem. just like the farmer posting his property then complaining that all the deer on on his property eating his crops, groundhogs got his fields torn up and predators are taking livestock.
Sunday hunting should have been implemented before the use of crossbows to promote new hunters to the sport. The PGC is a joke in every sense of the word. Like Obama, they could care less about the worker or student who puts time in the workplace and it proves it when they keep a day afield from them.