PPHA Forums
Predator Hunting => Predator Hunting => Topic started by: foxtrot on August 20, 2011, 10:11:55 PM
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I always find it interesting when we have are club sponsored hunts that the same areas of the state seem to always out produce others or so it seems.Is it because there are more fox or more participation from hunters in those areas?If you check the game commissions information on harvests there are other parts of the state that should be very productive but you never hear any success stories on here from these areas.
Why is that?
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i hear on the eastern side of the state you cant kick a bush without a fox running out of it. over here on the western side there are a good number of fox. but i know around me they are trapped hard and often shot at by all kinds of hunters and farmers.
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There are good spots all over the state. There are places in the state that I have called in more coyotes in one night then I can call all season any other place in the east. There are places that I have called in more gray fox in one night then you can shake a stick at. But for red fox the entire southern part of the state can be great red fox hunting. The key to seeing more is all about scouting for what critter you have in your area or going to were each critter has high numbers. This can take years to learn. If you say trappers are getting them that just means you can too. You just have to put the time in and be good at it. Example is it took me a few years until I killed my first red fox in the east. Today I have spots all over the state that have good numbers of critters to hunt. I do hower think that the east has a highest number of great predator hunters in the state. Most predator hunters today only have a few years under there belt. In the 80,s you could hardly find a predator hunters any were else but in the east and they were few and far. In the last 10 years predator hunting has been a growing sport all over the state and we will soon start seeing guys with high kill numbers more and more all over the state. A lot of the good guys never tell anyone how many they call and kill each year. There are a few I know that kill over a hundred critters a year and never post a thing on any boards about there numbers. My point is how hard you hunt has a lot to do with how many you get. A die hard hunter will find the good spots even if he has to drive a long ways. Like all types of hunting that you can kill all you are allowed to kill only 10% of the hunters kill 90%
of the game. Crows, ducks, doves are examples to relate to.
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Your sure stepping on alot of toes when you say the best predator callers are in the east.The fact is there are seven times as many fox reported harvests in district five as compared to district two or four.So someone hunting in district two might only harvest fourteen but if they put forth the same effort they could potentially harvest 98 in a more productive area.I will agree it takes a good hunter to capitalize on numbers like that and the east certainly has some guys that can do it.But there are some great callers in other parts of the state that don't see large harvest numbers because of geographics.I quess it really doesn't matter as long as you enjoy what your doing but everyone likes results and unfortunately some of you need to work a little harder.
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You are correct to some degree, geographic area sometimes has a lot to do with the kill numbers. But a die hard hunter will find good locations. My gray fox areas are over 125 miles from home. My coyote areas are 170 miles from home and my red fox areas are were I live. I consider a good predator hunter that has over 20 kills a year a good hunter. Maybe you know more in the west that kill more then that every year. I only know a few that kill over a hundred a year in the east.
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As far as number of hunters in the ppha that participate in hunts, D2 leads in numbers with 74 and D4 has 69 members. For instance, D5 has like 16 members, there are more chances of reported kills because there are just so many hunters from the south central and south eastern corners of the state. There are also many many predator hunters in this area that are not members, and the competition is very high with callers and trappers.
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It has never seemed to me that in my part of the state, nw corner that predator calling was all that popular. When I was a younger man in the late 70's early 80's I knew a few people who tried a couple of times but I have never ever met anyone else out calling. It has always seemed odd to me, even back in the 80's when there was so many gray's in my area it was ridiculous. It was back then what texas must be like for coyotes, like the predator pursuit guys said at the expo, scouting for them was a waste they just looked for likely spots and called. That's what I used to do and I had way more success with my homemade call then I have today. And buckwheat I admire you, 170 miles to kill a coyote makes me feel ashamed about myself, if I have to travel more then 20 miles I feel like I'm really on the road, lol
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I believe it is because there is more participating hunters in that section of the state. as far as how many you have to kill to be considered good? I think if someone worries about what others think of them and how good they are then they need to step back and think about why they are hunting in the first place. JMO.
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I live in an area where there are good numbers of fox and a few coyotes. Competition is very heavy where I call. Which is only within 10 miles from where I live. My typical year will produce around 10-15 fox and 5 coyotes. There are a couple really good trappers that trap where I call, as well as a handful of callers that either are good callers or good educators. If I would get a little more motivated and cover some miles, I might be able to kill close to 100 predators in a year. With a wife and 8 month old son, it makes it kind of tough.
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Yep, the time spent hunting, scouting, and finding a good numbers of critters and not missing what you call in = success!! And success is what ever you personally set for ones self. Some just set there goals higher. I just think there are a lot of people in the east that have high goals.
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Yep, the time spent hunting, scouting, and finding a good numbers of critters and not missing what you call in = success!! And success is what ever you personally set for ones self. Some just set there goals higher. I just think there are a lot of people in the east that have high goals.
I agree with you there buckwheat. to be successful consistently you need to put time in. There are more pieces of the puzzle but that is the big one I think many people over look. Set a goal at the start of the season and aim for it.
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Just like anything in life... you get out of it what you put into it. Animal populations do make a different in success rates. Back in the late 80's and early 90's I use to have very high responce rates compared to today. The dynamics of my critter population changed and I had to learn to change calling techniques to be more successfull.
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The areas that are hunted and trapped on a yearly basis seem to have the most prolific populations.There were some areas I hunted last year that supposedly hadn't been hunted in quit some time and the results were disappointing,where as areas that get hunted every year produce consistently every year.I quess by harvesting every year the population stays healthy and litters are larger.As far as scouting and setting goals I agree absolutly that your success will improve and being part of an organization like ppha helps to give you the motivation and knowledge to take it to the next level.But as far as productive areas some areas of the state just have more carrying capacity.
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Agree with you foxtrot 100%
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being a trapper i know that the south eastern part of Pa has a large fox population. no one can dispute that fact. there are stable fox numbers in my area, but that's all they are is stable. many big time trappers i know here in western Pa will take around 20-30 fox in a good year. out east you have people like Phil brown who take on a average 1000 fox a year.
now with more callers out east there could be a lot of educated fox. but there are a lot more fox that would have to be educated to make an impact. around me there are a few callers i know and less fox, so if a hunter is out educating fox it causes more of a problem.
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Biologist all agree that with yotes, the more pressure we put on them, the larger the litters. This makes for a sustained area that produces consistently year over year. And I mean produces does not mean that you can just walk in and call them to your car door LOL
I had a link from a biologist who is studying them in RI, that shows a harvest in one section of the study, that hunters took over 30 of them, and they reproduced twice as much as the other control area. This is why yotes are so successful and their numbers fluctuate. I lost the link, but had watched it for quite a while, although you can google many more, it's the same outcome.
I live in the south central part of PA, in greencastle, and know a couple of guys that have killed a few around the farms here. There is better turkey hunting here than yotes. If your in D4 and want to clue me in, I am all ears. Being a transplant, I don't have the local connections to get permission to hunt on private land, which seems to be the norm. The WMA's around here are loaded with hunters during the season. I have my guns ready to go for the fall hunt, and if anyone is around my area, I would be glad to get something going!
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I have notice because of all the new predators hunters in my area that as soon as I turn on the electronics the fox go to a high spot and start barking at me... So all those new callers are educating the fox. I kind of like that in a sense because then I have to really start to think of ways to outsmart those now educated critters...
I wish that when guys would first get their new electronic callers that they would not take them out time after time after time before the season and see what they can call in with them... I know it tough.. You want to see if it works... It works but your just educating them.
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Coyotes...after the deer season ends....Be it public lands or private lands...if you find the whitetail deer core areas in January and February....your going to find coyotes...
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Tell me all your hunting spots and I will stop educating them. ;D ;D ;D
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LOL Ya I can tell that they are call shy by someone using a Scorpion!
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I think being happy while doing it is all that matters.
Ryan.
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Oh, thats not me because I use a Scorpion and mouth calls. ;D ;D ;D
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Truly what you have to do to outsmart them is go to mouth calls and make sure you set up to compensate for the difference in shots.. Go from the shotgun to the rifle..
I heard the PGC outlawed all electronic game calling in our area of the state!!!!!!!!! ;D ;D
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That would eliminate all but you and I. That would be a dream come true even though I don't want that to happen.
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Lol
Unclebuck, you know when these guys get good at killing you will not have to worry about them setting on a hill and barking at you. You will just start to think the critters must just not be there that year, when in fact they are just dead. : >)
Ps I never carry a shot gun.
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renny makes most sense. some places have critters and some dont. i dont no nobody that drives 170miles to shoot coyote.
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I know plenty of guys who do just that. A lot of them are members here also.
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i here coyotes are all over the place why drive
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We don't all live in coyote good coyote country.
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be glad for that. coyots are knokking down the deer here.it is pretty simple easy to kill a coyot here.
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be glad for that. coyots are knokking down the deer here.it is pretty simple easy to kill a coyot here.
I'm looking forward to all the pics of dead yotes you're gonna post this year. ;D
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im lokking foward to a new electonic camra your sending me hahaha
i pop them and let them lie. i got 7 so far this year 1 in jan-1 in feb-2 inturkie-1 in sep-2 in oct
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I think what people are saying is, its hard to believe your numbers without some pics. Not that you have to prove anything but putting up consistant numbers by calling only is hard to do in PA.
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Claybird please show us how easy it is, cause it doesn't seem all that easy to me. I seem to work hard for every critter I shoot. Maybe if you have the secret you could pass it on to me!! :o
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as far as areas go Im sure i live in one of the toughest parts of the state to kill critters. All mountain terrain no farm fields. just straight up tall standing woods and some thick brush, gray population is steady, coyotes are here in good numbers but i think cover and terrain make them difficult at times, coons are tough here with no corn fields to call, bobcats are bobcats tough any where in the state and reds, well i can count the number of reds ive seen here on one hand anyone can attest to the difficulty of the sproul state forest for fur calling that has come to the NC Hunt or the guys that have cabins up this way......
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Well it isn,t realy a secret it,s mostly a lot of scouting and knowing where the critters are then you can get an idea of what kind of numbers are in the area you are hunting. Your success or lack of success is in how much time you put into it. you look for tracks, scat,feeding areas and travel ways. Now that you have done now its time to look into the appoach and setup. the appoach starts when you pull into the parking area no doors slaming no more talking to anyone and as little noise as posible . move to the setup area with red light on scanning the area, use tree lines , tall grass edges to break up your silowet as you move. pay attention wind dirction if its blowing into your calling area you may not want to set up there.
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Most times all areas are productive. Many times it's what you did or what you didn't do that ends up in a predator coming to a call...Things like walking in to far on your first stand... yep....you just scared a red or a coyote because you wanted to call a certain terrain... However that predator was real close to where you parked your vehicle..
There are going to be some nights no matter what sound you use your going to call in predators... Others nights the conditions you feel are going to be just right and your wrong you won't call in anything.
Using to much electronics and not being a person who uses either hand or mouth calls will make you fail too....When starting with electronics finish with using mouth calls or if your using electronics always end with using the Gray Fox Pup... you be surprised on how many red fox you can pop now and then with the GFP sound..
Playing the electronics to loud.. Especially food sounds..
Even hunting with a new hunter that just won't listen to you... Like move from a stand you put them on or turns off his light after the hunt... many a time a coyote is near and all of a sudden his light goes off and you hear that howl and barking in the distance..
In populated areas start later like 8:00 PM stay out later into the morning hours...After Standard Time it will get dark at 5:00 PM but there is going to be 999 people coming home from work traveling past those farms your trying to hunt..
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Reading this post has made me deside to take a road trip im heading north to Forrest County to chase some fox and coyotes for the weekend. Turkey season comes in there this Saterday so i will hunt some turkey also.
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i hear on the eastern side of the state you cant kick a bush without a fox running out of it. over here on the western side there are a good number of fox. but i know around me they are trapped hard and often shot at by all kinds of hunters and farmers.
So very true. I once thought I had this area of woods to myself and used to see alot of reds but then I heard about a guy trapping, one predator hunting and one property owner who shot 4 himself.