PPHA Forums
Predator Hunting => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: Brushwolf on November 05, 2010, 04:53:11 PM
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Well just found a 17fireball in a rem 700 predator at a really good price. Now what ammo or what type of bullet do you guys like that does the least amount of fur damage on a fox?
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Most of us use the Hornady 25 grain HP in the 17 Fireball and or the 17 Rem. I don't know the effect of the 20 grain V-Max. Remington UMC brand does make the 25 Grain HP in packs of 40. Your only going to see the 20 grainers Rem factory in most stores not the 25 Grainer.
Do you reload? All of the recommended powders group so well for this caliber... From 1 inch to 1/4 inch.
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i shoot the UMC .25 gr hollow point, i know Peistraks gun shop in Alden carries them for us. 50 per box and it cost about 39.00.
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Thanks guys. Will prob do some reloading.
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I saw a used one, but it was like 475 and i just paid that for a brand new .223 in the same model.
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Well I got the gun yesterday. Shot it in today and the rem model 7 predator shoots great. I shot It dead on at 50 yards and had a clover leaf pattern. Right now I am shooting the 20gr rem premier accutip. I got the gun and two boxes of shells for 500. The guy said he bought it and did not shoot it. He never put a scope on top of it. When I met the guy and was lookieg over the gun he was right. I could not pass up that deal. At least I thought it was a good deal.
If the gun is dead on at 50yards what can I except at 100y 150y or 220y with the 20gr. accutip? Did not look at the ballitic chart for the fireball yet.
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Just looked its pretty flat out to 150yards.
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Yes the 17 CF if they are dead on at 100 yards they will kill at over 250 yards. Best shoot fox at the middle of the chest or a side shot in the middle of the lungs area. That is where you should be shooting anyway.. Head shots could be messy above the eyes.. However any caliber gun would make a mess if you shoot a fox right in the forehead.. I use to keep my 17 CF 2 inch high at 100 yards... Now I make sure they are dead center at 100 yard since the bullet point of impact from point blank out to 250 yards will still kill a fox if shot in the proper area..
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I have a question? is the 20gr Rem Premier Accutip equal to the Hornady 20 grain V-Max in construction and blowup?
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UB - dont know if its true or not but I was told that Hornady Vmax is the same thing as the accu tip. I was told Hornady made them for Remington. Never researched it but, thats what I have been told. The 20s do fine for fox out of my 17. I will try to post a picture from this season for what my typical fox looks like with the 20 Vmax.
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(http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb456/TFC2223X/grizgrey1.jpg)
Top - entry is the blood spot on the neck region. Thats the only noticeable fur damage on that fox.
Bottom - frontal center punched. I couldn't even tell where I hit it when I retrieved it. While carrying it out by the hind legs it bleed some out of the entry hole.
25 grainers were more harsh on fur out of my 17 back when I experimented with them. Hornady JHP 25 grain and I seem to remember pushing them around 3800 over the chrony. The 20 Grain Hornady Vmax bullets have been great for me on coyote, bobcat and fox.
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Thanks for your observations and the pictures...I just took another look at the pictures... Awesome...I could see the two entry holes but thats about it...I think I'm going to like the 17 Fireball...
I did hit a red fox square in the forehead with a 25 HP with the 17 Fireball. I blew a V between his ears and took the top of the skull off. Of course I am sure any fox hit with any caliber in the forehead would have that V effect...I will have to try the 20 grain V Max... I sure have them here and I have shot some good groups with the powders I tried... I also got some Midway special 17 Fireball bullets... They are 20 grain HP. No plastic tip...They too might be good?
Try some of the IMR 8208 XBR for your 17. All bullets the 20 Gran V-Max and the 25 HP shot accurate in my 17 Fireball and my 17 Rem's.
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UB - I currently am running H335. This powder is known to be temperature sensitive but, it works well for me. My 17 is very accurate and my most fun cartridge to shoot. I even have a XP 100 pistol chambered in same. I have been having great success with the 20 grain Hornady Vmaxs and I am even running them hot. Many reloaders like to slow them down to even do better on fur but, for me its not a problem. This caliber shoots like a laser which makes range estimating at night not as crucial. I have had nothing but, a positive response with this caliber and on the few times that it failed I blame me more than anything for shooting to far beyond the cartridges capabilities on coyotes/bobcats etc. When I do my job behind the trigger, stay off heavy boned areas, fringes of the animal and angled shots it does typically what you see above in the picture. The double I shot above was not at extended ranges either where energy/velocity is shed. The top fox was at 33 paces and the bottom fox was at 21 paces. Keep me posted on your findings which I hope are as positive for you as it has been for me.
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UB - I experienced unacceptable fur damage with the 25 grain Hornady JHP. I abandoned this bullet for this reason. I even tore fox up using my 17 pistol shooting same at even slower velocities. Sorry I forgot to mention that with my last post.
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Uncle buck
Here is some information for you, you my not like it, and neither do I. On 6 Red fox I shot with the 25 gr hollow point at 4085fps. Remember I am shooting a shooting a rem 17 not a fire ball. Four Red fox had little damage just a blood spot, two looked like a canon hit them. There are at lest 18 Red fox shot with the (25 gr v-max) at 4100 fps. that had more damage then most would want. Some Red fox were shot with the 25 v max were hit real hard, one hit even took entire leg off one. The 20 pill just seams small to me for coyotes, but I might change my mind after seeing how hard 25 gr v max are hitting fox.
The 20 gr pill like TFC2223 is talking about looks like the way to go for the guys that are interested in having nice fur to sell or tan on fox.
TFC2223
What velocity are you shooting the 20 gr pills at.
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The H335 powder also shot outstanding for both the 20 grain V-Max and the 25 grain HP... Now this was for the Fireball not the 17 Rem..
Buckwheat now you said the 25 grain V-Max...Hornady does have the 25 HP.. Actually the factory Rem ammo is 25 GR HP ammo. That's all I use in the 17 REM.. Like i said in the post above..Midway sales a 20 grain 17 Cal HP..Non-Vmax... It's a special 17 Fireball bullet.. However Fireball or 17 Rem they both might shoot well? I did see you could buy the 25 grain Hornady in V-Max..Always felt that was to explosive...V-Max designated bullets....
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UB - I experienced unacceptable fur damage with the 25 grain Hornady JHP. I abandoned this bullet for this reason. I even tore fox up using my 17 pistol shooting same at even slower velocities. Sorry I forgot to mention that with my last post.
Thanks for the info I appreciate it...
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Ernie I am shooting mine fast at about 4,000 fps over the chrony. I have anchored coyote from PA to Texas with the 20 Grain Vmax but, I don't shoot as far to avoid losing them. It is alittle light for our eastern yotes. Still works but, I do this because its what i carry when fox is in season. Once fox goes out I bump up to a Tactical 20 which has done very well on coyotes for me.
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TFC2223
Thanks for the information on the speed on the 20 gr. bullet. I will start messing around some.
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no problem... If you need anything else concerning the 17 just ley me know. Good luck.
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this conversation has been very interesting... I'm still thinking about a 17 FB for the Contender action I have sitting in the safe, but it'll not be used for nite hunting... I shoot everything in the head with my 22K-Hornet, and have no problems tearing them up if I do it right... so long as they're hit from the eyeball in and not right on the top knot, there's very little external damage... this is with a 40gr V-Max and 11½gr of lil-gun... not sure what the velocity is on them but they're a bit slower then factory Hornets... even with Winchester 45gr sp's or 46gr HP's there's not a lot of damage...
I'll be using the Contender as a lite stalker down here for daylight hunting so shooting to the body won't be a problem shooting full power stuff...
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Dale,
Good to see your still alive. How are things going in NC? Good to see you on the board again.
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Dale,
Good to see your still alive. How are things going in NC? Good to see you on the board again.
lost a hard drive to a virus a while back and just getting around to finding all the sites I was on... doing well, sitting in this cold spell right now, to cold for the MC's but still getting along...