PPHA Forums
Predator Hunting => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: Pa Goosehntr on March 11, 2016, 04:58:30 PM
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I sent a question to CZ as to what the barrel is .223 or .224 as far as what bullets I would use to reload with. Here is my answer from CZ:
Jim,
Factory ammunition in that caliber is .224 diameter, and is what we recommend.
Thanks,
Dereck
CZ-USA
800-955-4486 x 334
fax: 913-321-2251
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I think all 22 (CF) bullets are in fact .224 and not .223, look on your Sierra or Nosler bullet box it will read 22 CAL .224 DIA.
Likewise with the .243 it will read .243CAL 6mmDIA
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;) ;) That's correct ...but you can still find 22 Hornet bullets in .223...and it specify' s Hornet bullets..and I heard that CZ had a tighter barrel tolerance, so I ask the question... ??? ??? ??? ??? Now I know!! I'll keep rollin with what stock I have on hand til it dials in where it should....Sierra 40 gr. HPs :o :o :o :o I really like that lil pill.. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) that's what comes out of my Ruger 223 very accurately.. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I sent CZ an email years ago when I got mine and was told it was 223.
Several years later there was discussion about this. I emailed them again and got the answer that they were always 224. Never tried slugging the barrel to find out, but I do know it shoots 223s scary accurate
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Email from 2007
.223
Brian Welch
Sales
CZ-USA
800-955-4486
brian@cz-usa.com
-----Original Message-----
From: CZ-USA Webserver [mailto:info@cz-usa.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 8:33 PM
To: CZ-USA@lsh157.siteprotect.com; Inc.
Subject: FROM CZ-USA WWW - bore of the 527 American 22 hornet
From : John
E-mail :
Phone :
--------------------------------------------------------------
Does CZ use a .223 or .224 bore in the 527 American 22 hornet?
Thanks
Email from 2013
From: info <info@cz-usa.com>
To: John G
Sent: Tuesday, October 8, 2013 9:00 AM
Subject: RE: CZ527 bore question
John,
.22 Hornet was standardized to.224 in the 50’s and our guns are designed to shoot .224 bullets. Our bores are a bit tighter than some, which is why our .22 Hornets are known for their accuracy.
Thanks!
Zach Hein
800 955 4486
fax: 913 321 2251
CZ-USA
From: John G
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2013 9:51 PM
To: info
Subject: CZ527 bore question
I emailed you a few years back and questioned the bore CZ used on their 22 Hornet rifle barrels. I was informed these are .223
Has this changed? Are they .223 or .224 bore?
Thank you
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;) ;) ;) Thanx for sharing these TJ....makes one wonder a little ??? ??? ??? ??? so I will be doing some experimenting with both sizes and a bunch of Lil Gun.. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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;) ;) ;) Got two loads ready for testing...one with 12 grs the other 13 grs..both of Lil Gun and 40 gr Sierra HPs..
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I'll be waiting to see how these turn out...
remember you're working with a small case here and a few .10th's of a grain can make a big difference in both accuracy and velocity/pressure...
back around the time of the last North Central hunt I called CZ and asked one of the engineers about the bore diameter they were using on the Hornets... I was told they bored them at .223, but it was ok to shoot .224 bullets in them... so there you go if you have one that won't shoot .224 drop down to the .223Hornet bullets and try them...
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OK here is this mornings shots...my .223 Hornet bullets are to arrive today and I'll be loading some of them to try....the target on the left was 12 Gr Lil Gun and the one on the right was 13 Gr Lil Gun both with .224 40 Gr Sierra HPs at 100 meters.
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;) ;) ;) ;) They came and now I have Sierra .223 SPs loaded in 40Gr and 45Gr each with 13 Gr of Lil Gun :) :) :) :) Now just got to git to the range again.. :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
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That's a big difference in groups
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;D ;D Yea and you would have though I was in the vino with the one on the left, off a Caldwell sled :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\ I'll see what the story looks like with the Sierra .223 Hornet bullets being pushed with 13 grs of Lil Gun ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
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I Haven found a 22 hornet that grouped tight enough for my liking. Still looking though.
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;) ;) That's why I reload, you develop the shell for the gun ??? ??? ??? it just takes awhile sometimes :-\ :-\ :-\ These .223 bullets may be the answer to the CZ based on what the techs said.. 8) 8) 8) 8)
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Interesting information (http://i843.photobucket.com/albums/zz356/trixstands/Mobile%20Uploads/1-rifle-barrel-bore-view.gif) (http://s843.photobucket.com/user/trixstands/media/Mobile%20Uploads/1-rifle-barrel-bore-view.gif.html)
TECHNICAL INFORMATION:
The 22 Hornet is an older cartridge that was originally adapted from the 22 WCF. Most of the early firearms (and even some modern guns) chambered for the Hornet have barrels with 1-16” twist rates and/or .223” groove diameters. All of our .22 caliber bullets are .224” diameter, so be sure the groove diameter of your gun is proper for the bullet you intend to use. Additionally, our 40 grain Ballistic Tip® bullets require 14” twist barrels to properly stabilize when fired at Hornet velocities. 50 grain and heavier bullets are not recommended for this cartridge.
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Thanx Ernie...yes, my CZ is 1:16 twist :o :o :o :o so I'm hopeful these .223 bullets that came yesterday are what I need for the pattern I expect. ??? ??? ???
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Goose
I would check though Cz, they made a 223 and a 224 dia both were one in 16 twist.
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;) ;) ;) Here is another day at the range and I like these results; Left pic is 40 gr .223 and the right is 45gr .223 and the winner both are with 13 Grs of Lil Gun...that is 6 shots in that target once again at 100 meters. The deviation/spread I'm blaming on crosshairs that cover the center dot and I make a judgement on... :o :o :o :o
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;) ;) ;) ;) Ernie the best grouping is with the .223 bullets 8) 8) 8)...the .224 were to radical :-\ So I'll be shooting the .223 out of my CZ Hornet as TrappinJohn recommended. Now I just need to stock pile some. :P :P :P :P
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Just for the record ...those center orange dots are smaller than a dime... :o :o :o :o
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Goose
I used to shoot hornet bullets out of my 223 in reduced loads for red fox.
But I never used them in full charge loads.
The CZ should shoot better then that with the correct bullet diam. Did you try different powders?
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Yes, I tried H110 and got decent results using .224 bullets, the Lil Gun powder came highly recommended by GFish and TJ...so I tried it. and the results are good....I feel if I went to a different fine cross hair scope the results could be even better, not sure. Only problem with the fine cross hair scopes is their size...you can end up with a scope as long as your barrel real quick....if I need to go over 150 yds, then it's time to bring out the 243 again...I'm looking at the Hornet as a close range rifle.
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A target with cross hair designed and get away from the dot target helps when your cross hairs cover the target
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+1 what bw said about the target.
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You're getting closer Goose
I haven't seen a CZ yet that won't shoot cloverleaves
Switching primers can make a huge difference also
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Goose, instead of a different scope... use that dot to make a figure 8 with the spot on the target... you still have the vertical wire to center the dots... see if that doesn't give you a bit more precision...
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TJ I'm using Fed 205s I may go back to CCIs ??? ??? ???
GFish I'm probably going to a vertical line with an intersecting horizontal line..AKA Magic Marker line..... It will bring them in tighter, so I'm not looking to change the current formula until I try that., but I don't see it getting any better unless I use a vise...
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For what it's worth I use CCI Bench Rest primers.
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I've had real good results with small pistol primers in my Hornet and the KHornet loadings... they say a rifle primer has enough push to start the bullet down the barrel before the powder burns up... not good for consistency or good accuracy... ya might want to try some of them also...
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>:( >:( >:( >:( I ain't changin nuttin!! ??? ??? ??? ??? other than targets ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) now iffin the targets tell me I'm wrong ??? ??? ??? ??? I ain't changin the formula... :-X :-X :-X Old coot bein hard headed 8) 8) 8)
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>:( >:( >:( >:( I ain't changin nuttin!! ??? ??? ??? ??? other than targets ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) now iffin the targets tell me I'm wrong ??? ??? ??? ??? I ain't changin the formula... :-X :-X :-X Old coot bein hard headed 8) 8) 8)
Not an old coot being hard headed, just an old coot using good thinking.
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hey Goose now that things have settled some with the new gun, with a 1-16" twist, have you tried any of the Hornady 35gr bullets?... my Encore Hornet barrel is a 1-12" twist and the lightest bullets I can stabilize is the 40gr, the 35gr Hornady's look more like a shotgun pattern out of my faster twist barrel... why don't you buy a box of the 35gr factory loads and give'm a try...
I've talked to others who swore by them, said they couldn't load them as accurate as the factory's shot... they're not around the club anymore, but the 2 brothers from southern York county, swore by them, and they were some fox killin fools...
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Hmmmm guess I can give them a try ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)