PPHA Forums
Predator Hunting => Predator Hunting => Topic started by: Scuttle904 on January 05, 2017, 10:06:57 AM
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This is my second year coyote/predator hunting in PA with no luck so far. I have a few days left and was just curious what you guys used for locating? I've heard howling right after dark? after 10pm? 4am? then setting up first thing in the morning and calling. Saw somewhere that you should not howl because you could educate the dogs or if you howl too early the yokes could be in the next County by dawn. I'm just trying to stack the deck in my favor and wanted to get some input on how you seasoned veterans do things? I would to sit in on a hunt and observe if someone is willing
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If your hearing them try calling at that time depending on how far they are away they may come don"t call allot try answering with same howl that there doing but do not over call, every one I have called in so far I have used 3 sounds in 40-45 min set its all vocal sound to. What part of the state do you live in I"am in Lycoming County.
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I'm up in wyoming county. Are they coming early in your set? Someone told me you ods go down significantly after 15-20 minutes of calling?
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Most all that I have called in have showed up 20-30 min. mark had one at 50 min mist that one. For me I set on stand 40-50 min in the 11 or so years I been calling 50-60% show up after 20 min mark this is night calling I do daytime calling to I just try to stay in woods get closer to them. There are guys that are far better at it then me hopefully they will offer a tip also.
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Most of the coyotes I've called have come in around the 10-15 minute mark. However I have had a few show up at the 25-30 minute mark. Perhaps they were there in 10 minutes and never showed themselves till later..... who knows. Less is more in my opinion. I try not to call much but wait more between calling sounds. I relate calling coyotes very similar to calling turkeys. Sometimes they come in quick, sometimes they hang up. A simple putt or purr then go silent brings them in ....... less being more.
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Here is a question.
When calling at night and a coyote sets down in an open field and hangs up at 300 + yards at night what do you do?
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Pray
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If I have a shot, I'll take the shot. I'm comfortable with my set up (gun, light, shooting rest, etc.) enough and ability to take the shot. That's my first answer..... Take the shot !!
There are a few variables to consider also..... how's the wind, is he vocalizing back and if so what sounds - barks, Howels, yips, none at all....... have I called this coyote before?
Most likely if I still have his attention, I'll sit silent for a while to see what he does. Time is on my side. If he hangs up out there and is barking at me, I'll back out and come back another day. (If I didn't already take the shot) Some guys may try and close the distance and move toward him. I personally don't like to do that. I'm afraid I'll spook him.
A lot of this answer is dictated by what's being played out at the time. One things for sure though, when I finish up, I'm going to give Ernie a call and run it past him for advice!!!!
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I was watching Fox Pro show and Abner had answer to that on fur tactics he keeps light on them and moves straight at them some I will try if need be.
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I was watching Fox Pro show and Abner had answer to that on fur tactics he keeps light on them and moves straight at them some I will try if need be.
I know that works for fox..never did it with a coyote.
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All good guesses on what to do. I asked the question to see what other people do that has worked. I personally have never seen anything work but one time when I stayed on stand calling for 20 mimutes turning a johnystewart tape player volume up and down playing ct102 rabbit distress 16 years ago.
Misterjake23 I do pretty much the all things you do also with about the same amount of results you get. Praying is were I start out also.
Walking down fox and walking down coyotes with a light is two differnt things. I have walked fox down a lot with a light but now feel if I just worked the fox a littler harder calling they would have come in close enough for a shot anyways. The closes I seam to be able to walk a coyote down is 300 yards. The ******s do not even run most of time, they just walk off. I am thinking, but just guessing is to take a chair and wait them out. Problem is after 15 min I get boarded just looking at them.
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Coyotes are tough as compared to calling in fox. Everyone I call and don't get a shot at I second guess what I did or should have done. The one thing I did learn is this....... if a shot presents itself, you have to take it. No matter how slim it may be ......if there's a chance, you can't be trigger shy. You may never get another opportunity!!!!
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Misterjake
That's a fact! Take the shot.
The problem is shooting this 17 hornet 150 yards yards is all it is good for. Unless you take a head shot. As you know I am not a shot fan on head shots.
So I have to figure out this coyote problem. Waaaaa!
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I remember several years ago when the PPHA had their booth at the outdoor show over by FoxPro..this was before I had even heard of this association so I stopped to see what it was about..A guy behind the table asked how I was making out for the season. We chatted a bit and I had told him about some fox hanging up on me...I can remember this guy looking right at me and telling me I just had to let the lead fly and see what happens..because if you don't, you'll certainly not get the fox..I always thought I could work harder or find that magic to get them to commit..sometimes you can, sometimes you can't..BUT, you can always have confidence in yourself and your gun and pull the trigger when it makes sense to..To this day I still have no clue who this guy is...but when I get a hanger, I remember his words..the messed up thing is, I still opt to try and work them..guess I'm stubborn..
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Quattro
LOL might of been me that said shoot. But with this 17 hornet it would be in vain now. I aways used a 223 back then.
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Quattro
LOL might of been me that said shoot. But with this 17 hornet it would be in vain now. I aways used a 223 back then.
Of the few I've actually met from here, it very well could have been you!..perhaps just a younger version ;)
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Quattro
The only reason I said it might have been me I always said you have to play to win. Meaning if you do not shoot you can never win.
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it probably was you..this was 6years ago or so..booth was next to night eyes and across from foxpro
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Quattro
I was there all week that year.
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Ernie, Just curious, Why don't you like to take head shots? You know as well as I do how much of a tack driver the 17 hornet is. The center of the target is the same size on the head as it is on the shoulder!! I haven't met a 17 hornet shooter that can't put 3 shots in a quarter at 100 yards. I'm assuming you can do the same with yours. With that kind of accuracy, what's the hesitation?? I agree that a 300 yard shot is really pushing the limits for the 17 hornet. However, I've seen quite a few fox drop with head shots at 200.
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That's a big question.
Let's use a red fox head that we will give a dimension of roughly 3 inches by 3 Inches.
Let's assume we're out hunting and a Fox shows up in a hundred and fifty yards and won't come any further.
At 150 yards with a 8 mile an hour crosswind the 17 the bullet blow roughly 2 inches.
Most guns even the ones that shoot under a dime are really 3/4 inch group guns at a hundred yards. There are times we can do better but as an average you will find a 3/4 inch gun is there a realistic number. But I've hung out with a lot of people that a 1 inch and an inch and a half group gun is a realistic number. Even mine at times messing around is an 1 inch gun.
So right off the bat if you put the crosshairs right between the foxes eyes you are going to miss that Fox at that hundred and fifty yard range mark. You may even miss him at the 75 yard range mark.
Or worse yet you blows bottom jaw off if he's standing sideways or knock out maybe just a few teeth. That fox is still going to get away. And have a miserable existence after that.
This is under ideal shooting conditions. Guy shooting off shooting sticks and other half wit ideas you're going to miss a lot more and crippled a lot more.
So under real-life conditions in the field it's a bad spot to aim unless you have quality equipment and are really confident in your shooting ability. Even then it is probably a luck shot and a prayer anything past the hundred yard mark in the head.
In real life conditions we will have shots probably not as steady as he thinks he is and a gun that doesn't shoot as good as he thinks it does.
Remember the math calculations for the shot were under ideal conditions in a controlled environment with the rifle solidly mounted.
So now let's look at the shoulder shot and heart lung area. You are now looking at our area that is around 6 inches by 6 inches. You have just simply doubled your odds of making a clean kill. There is more to this but that is enough to get the picture.
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I agree with Buckwheat and not trying to be a smart ass.
Am not a good shot but figure my math is good.
Let's see...
Head shot- 3" x 3" = 9 square inches
Shoulder, heart, lung shot- 6" x 6" = 36 square inches
The shoulder, heart, lung shot is 4 times greater than a head shot. (just to boost Buckwheat's point)
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Seems most people I know say they are head shooters..and a lot of guys do quite well with it..I rarely take a head shot...just boiler room shots. Even with a dime shootin' 17 hornet..or any gun for that matter.
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Quattro
Let them keep shooting at there heads, there are no set rules. I have taken a few head shots when needed. But if I am in it to take more fur home head shots are a last resort.
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Quattro
Let them keep shooting at there heads, there are no set rules. I have taken a few head shots when needed. But if I am in it to take more fur home head shots are a last resort.
Well Ernie, as far as predator hunting goes, my name and the word prolific will never be mentioned in the same sentence but for the creatures I do manage to call in I feel the the odds tip to shoulder/heart/lung..and Amen to "no set rules"..that is an understatement at times..
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Quattro
There are people that take head shots on deer on a regular bases. They say it is to save meat.
They must be starving!!
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Personally, I'm a head shooter for fox. This year I shot 3 aiming for heart and lungs. I hit all 3. All three ran off. I was using the 17 hornet 25 gr hp from Hornady. No more head shots for me.
Each to there own. I don't think there is a true right or wrong answer. If it works for you, then do it. After all, a lot of shooting is mental, If you're not mentally confident before the shot, you're already doomed to miss!! That's one of the reasons I like to long range ground hog hunt. It keeps my confidence high all year round.
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jake, agree with shooting Groundhogs. I'll add Squirrels (with .22) to the list.
It's repeated and may sound corny, but shooting practice pays off. Confidence is gained when one becomes familiar with rifle, trigger pull, scope, loading & unloading.
Squirrel hunting with .22 has honed my rifle shooting skills. I've felt cocky and confident looking at the crosshairs. jake, so I know what you are saying about taking a head shot.
But I still pass on head shot Canines. I go for the larger target.
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Misterjake23
I know you are starting an interesting discussion on the forum. Signs of a good PPHA district officer.
This is what this site every now and then is good for.
Having a discussions on hunting and shooting methods is a good one. It helps people through other people's results and opinions. This gives people some insight on hunting redfox.
Over the years I have learned and changed a lot of my hunting methods. I like going with new people that know very little, I learn the most from them sometimes.
Things I took for granted and have not thought about for years jump out when hunting with them. Sometimes it even helps me adjust my thinking.
So!! If you are a head shooter or a body shooter on redfox just get good at either. I have learned after you get good at calling in them shooting is the next thing. If you can not hit what you call in you will never get better at taking redfox. All the good number guys hate to miss even one!!
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Buckwheat,
Perhaps in this perfect world we live in, we should just call them all into shotgun range and never have to worry about body shots or headshots...... with s shotgun, just pull up and pray...... I mean shoot!!! LOL
I do agree that getting different opinions allows everyone to see all angles and make their own choices. What works for one doesn't always work for all.
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Masterjake23
I hunted redfox with a shot gun quite a bit. Matter of fact I believe before this club was started most people hunted with a shot gun.
Everybody thought the big thing was the over and under to help fill the need. I never went down that road and just went to the rifle or carried a shot gun. Today in the woods hunting coyotes there are time i wished i carried a shot gun.
That 40 yard shot can take a wile to get a redfox sometimes.
Seen a lot shot at and not gotten by people that thought they were close enough including my self.
Grayfox a shot gun can be pretty deadly in the woods.
But I stick to rifles, it upsets me to see something at 60 yards and I can not shoot with a shot gun.
I also learnt that I needed more precision type shooting methods if I wanted to shoot farther then 40 yards.
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I've shot gunned a few fox in my lifetime. It's quite a rush to watch in total anticipation that fox getting closer and closer. Then when it finally closes that distance to where you can take a shot, it's one heck of a rush !!
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Misterjake23
It was not that many years ago some people though my shooting red fox at long distance was not even hunting. People called me out on it more then once. Amazing how things change.