Pennsylvanians for hunting on Sunday

[Lifes2fun]

Wow. these negitive posts are very upsetting. Truely a shame for the future of the PPHA, through which, I have met some outstanding people

I agree
Shame some offer no suggestion till theyre on their way out of the association
Officers, I appreciate everything you do, its a tough job....and you guys do great

[Buckwheat]

YEP, it is a fact that you can not please everyone. I think it would be great if a PPHA volunteers would be doing more too. Howvere the guys that give of there time freely to help other in our sport no matter what they can get done need to be thanked for what they do no matter what the none volunteer people or members think.  HECK!  with out our PPHA volunteer people there would be nothing for other people to complain about. So I would like to thank everyone and look forward meeting more great people and having fun at any events the future volunteers can pull together in there busy schedule and maybe change a few laws if the right volunteers can ever find enough time. But for now i am pretty happy just to be able to hunt with a gun mounted light and have fun with other PPHA members.   So thanks again volunteers, you guys are the best in our sport.

[my7pointmonster]

I'll be honest, I volunteered to help out more and I was gonna do this and do that but then the crap hit the fan and I definitely let some people down there so I can say first hand how easy it is to SAY you'll help but how hard it is to actually do it. hopefully in the near future I'll be able to help more but there are some really good points here also. Gotta take it both ways really.

A little harsh guys but the truth is, it really is Constructive Criticism.

Gotta take it and build on it.

Ryan.

[jaspr1]

Jeremiah after posting one of the most thought out views I have read in a long while...you are going to drop out??? I was going to quit ,couple of years ago, as a matter of fact, Ben called me....Ben is Ben...he doesn't need me to defend him but I would like to say this....he is passionate about the PPHA. He is, along with others, the core GLUE that keeps this thing floating...Ben would call his own mother out if he thought it would work and any other member of the PPHA, he is an Equal Opportunity caller outer......I thought your post was just the kind of thing we needed to get a positive dialog going...better than my post for sure...its turned into a disaster and it never should have...One of the big problems as I see it, as a group we are really spread out and its hard to get face to face meetings...hell this group, even in their own districts, can't seem to get together for a coffee and donut Sat morning Bull session....I AM AS GUILTY AS EVERYONE ELSE, just should state that for the record...The very best point of your post was the first sentence...."DON'T TAKE THIS PERSONAL"....exactly! My own brother and friend dropped out...."I can buy my own subscription to Predator Extreme"... nice attitude!! This is the "Log Chain Theory" at its best...push the chain its useless...pull the chain and the purpose is served...to much pushing and not enought pulling together...JMO     ps:I would like to add Ben is direct...no BS...I was there at a PPHA event when he sank the boat that "rockfish" said was unsinkable!! Ben got up walked to said boat and sank it with one hand...LOL...he is my hero and I will send in my dues as long as he is on board... just sayin!

[bigben]

As well to add im not saying that jeremiahs points are not good.  I cant say anything other then what i did. We ask for volunteers and no one steps up. Or they step up and dissapear when the real work needs done.  I wonder how much gal that fishes or dutch would be pushing the issue if they were doing it on their own dime? 

[Bulldog]

I love all the volunteers an I hate the fact that Tim is stepping down he will be missed. Tim is one of the guys why I joined. Going to these events that are nothing else but fun an enjoyable is the other. That is what this club is about to me. We need to get back to what matters the members an good memories

[HuntSunday]

Ben,

Nice to see you over here talking behind my back rather than asking me directly to my face. Pretty manly of you.  You could have at least said it to me in a PM over on HPA.  (this is Kathy, aka gal)

Lots of my time and money are into this, as well as Brad's.  Add the wear and tear on my car, phone bills and hundreds if not thousands of hours, and it all adds up- in addition to "MY DIME".

Should Dutch and I mortage our homes and say to heck with our daughter's college educations to pay for this solo? I mean, why have a PPHA.  Why don't YOU pay for it all on YOUR dime? Heck, why dont you have a jamboree for all of the PPHA members, and YOU pay for it all; including lodging in a nice hotel  in addition to all of the work involved.  ABSURD.

Now that that is cleared up- we'll get to the facts.

This isn't a USP type case.

Here, we have a wildlife agency that WANTS to regulate Sunday Hunting. Don Heckman and I talked to Carl Roe about it before we made a move; and the agency had NO PROBLEM with it.  Vern Ross, former PGC executive Director is on our advisory staff.

Our first PA Constitution said "The inhabitants shall have the liberty to hunt and fowl in all seasonable times on land they hold and all other land therein not inclosed; and likewise; to fish in all boatable waters and others not private property"

Hunting was lawful on Sunday until 1873.  In fact, even the quakers approved of hunting on Sunday.  But I'm sure you read that over on HPA.

While we may have to NAME the PGC in the case, it isnt them who we are taking to court.  Its the legislature- who won't remove the proibition and allow the PGC to regulate it.  Its an unlawful law that is limiting the amount of quality time families can spend afield.

If we can drink, gamble, or do any of those things on Sunday, we should be able to hunt.  Hunting is one of the greatest opportunities for familes to spend quality time together.

[bigben]

First off i didnt talk behind your back. Second off you have no idea what i have done for this association and what i have paid out of my pocket to go to events/host events. Third off you totally missed the point i was trying to make and obviously you didnt comprehend it the first time and doubt you'll get it if i explain it to you

Ben,

Nice to see you over here talking behind my back rather than asking me directly to my face. Pretty manly of you.  You could have at least said it to me in a PM over on HPA.  (this is Kathy, aka gal)

Lots of my time and money are into this, as well as Brad's.  Add the wear and tear on my car, phone bills and hundreds if not thousands of hours, and it all adds up- in addition to "MY DIME".

Should Dutch and I mortage our homes and say to heck with our daughter's college educations to pay for this solo? I mean, why have a PPHA.  Why don't YOU pay for it all on YOUR dime? Heck, why dont you have a jamboree for all of the PPHA members, and YOU pay for it all; including lodging in a nice hotel  in addition to all of the work involved.  ABSURD.

Hunting was lawful on Sunday until 1873.  In fact, even the quakers approved of hunting on Sunday.  But I'm sure you read that over on HPA.

And to tell you the truth i have not read about it on hpa.

[Lifes2fun]

"If we can drink, gamble, or do any of those things on Sunday, we should be able to hunt.  Hunting is one of the greatest opportunities for familes to spend quality time together."

Kathy...don't come over here bashing Ben.....because you see that part in Bold....YOU CAN HUNT SUNDAYS....
Just not for what YOU want to.
Ben has worked very hard (as well as some others) for hunting as well.
I don't believe for one second he was "talking behind your back"
So do tell, are you being reimbursed for your expenses? (and no one is saying you shouldn't)
As stated on another site, I still am confused on why restitution would be asked for unless it is money personally lost, if donations are paying for this, will the donors get their money back? Where would the money go?
I guess I have a problem with monetary lawsuits against the Gov. mainly because I am a hunter and taxpayer, so either way I lose double

The fact that supporters are permitted to post links and such on a "association forum board" says alot for the PPHA.
Did you help support removing orange regulations for coyote hunting? Determining shot size? How about anything at all for predator hunters?
There have been folks on here trying for other species such as coon and bobcat on Sundays for a few years.  I didn't see you jump on and help the PPHA with that.

What happened in 1873 to restrict Sunday hunting?
What happened to restrict hunting as a right?

I am speaking as a hunter as I have been hunting for almost 30 years.
To jump up and slap someone as hard working as Ben doesn't do well in the community youre seeking support in.

[Leglifter]

I am the only moderator on this board, lets keep this civil or everyone goes

[HuntSunday]

I take it you don't pay attention at Commission meetings?. 

Yes, I have asked for expanded opportunities for bobcat.  And what do you think Hunters United for Sunday hunting is?  It requires a legislative process to add Sundays - and that was what HB 1760 would have done, would it not? I recall giving testimony at those hearings, and didn't exclude any hunters.  It should be the PGC having the regulatory authority to determine what species should be hunted.

I have yet to be reimbursed for anything I have spent to this point, although I had a donor who paid for my gas and tolls- and its still in the HUSH checking account.  Yes, reasonable expenses are allowed with approval of the board.  To this point, however; I have not taken a dime.

And YES, I know hunting SOME species is lawful.  However, laws must be FAIRLY APPLIED.  See THOSE words in bold?   

Please tell me, what do I want to hunt on Sunday?  I don't recall ever saying I wanted to hunt anything.  Guess you got an A plus in Ross Lefler School of mind reading. 

This case will be filed - and the courts will make the call. 

As to reimbursement, perhaps you can tell me in what context that was said? I take it you oppose the NRA being reimbursed by the court for the Heller case, or McDonald v. Chicago?  How about HSUS or PETA and the more than 9 million dollars they have gotten in PA courts alone for LOSSES? Do you think perhaps there is a loophole there they are using that needs to be closed? I certainly do. 

If there is a reimbursement by the court, it would go where it belongs and as its written in our articles of dissolution- to hunter advocacy ALL OF IT,- and the first 50% goes to the PFSC.

I appreciate the work Ben has done for hunter advocacy.  I never knocked him for that.  Too few people stand up for hunting in any regard anymore.  Frankly, I'm sick and tired of hunters fighting against other hunters.  But, I am also going to defend myself when someone who thinks I can't see what they are saying about me doesn't have the guts to say it to my face.

The crap needs to end.

You don't like or want Sunday hunting, fine.  Attack the issue.  Quit attacking the person.  But if you feel you must Shawn and Ben, at least you picked a girl who can take it and will fight back.

Not how I want it- but the choice is up to you.

Now, if you'd like to discuss the issues like a gentleman,  I'd much prefer that.

[bigben]

You still dont get it. Talk to dutch. I replied to his puffed out chest pm on hpa. Im sure your on the phone talking to him about me calling you out using a "rhetorical" question.  What i was getting at was why should jeremiah expect a volunteer officer that gets nothing but critism to spend his own money in harrisburg for someone who isnt grateful for what they allready have  considering jeremiah prob wouldnt have a gun mounted light market in pa if it wasnt for the ppha fighting for it.  You guys prob wouldnt be fighting for sunday hunting if you were not going to be reimbursed at some point would you?  Exactly. Im not saying you shouldnt be reimbursed.  If you still dont get it i give up. Maybe ub can help ya idk.

[bigben]

And seeing how you were the one to come here and be the agressor even though you have no clue of the service i or any other officer has done here it would be nice if you think next time before you come on the ppha board knocking its officers. Thank you

[HuntSunday]

You are the one who said I was no better than USP, Ben. 

Look, I don't want to fight- but dang it; this hunter v. hunter has to end.

The legislature has had 20 years to deal with Sunday hunting- longer in reality- and they continue to drop the ball.

Now, some members of the legislature are telling me they are GLAD this monkey will be off their back by us taking it to the court. 

When certain stores were closed on Sunday becuase the legislature said they had to be, it took courageous store owners to take it to court, where they WON because it didn't serve a valid secular purpose and the law wasn't being fairly applied.  The same is happening to hunting, but for some reason, some hunters are afraid to stand up for hunting.

I'm not.

I'm taking this challenge to the court for every hunter, be it a predator hunter, or a deer, or turkey or crossbow or longbow hunter, small game hunters- makes NO difference.  We're all hunters, and hunters from each and every group support this issue.  I think of it as a hunter uniting issue beause no one will be forced to hunt if the don't want to- but it has support from every walk of the hunting community.  When is the last time that happened?

Each of our groups who want to hunt on Sunday (or not), once this case is won, will need to present their case to the Pennsylvania Game Commission, the regulatory agency where the choice belongs.  It does NOT belong in the hands of the legislature who doesn't want to take any action on this issue for fear of ticking the other side off.

Carl Roe himself said WCOs already work Sunday.  They have no fear of overhunting because season length AND allocation drives harvest.  All this will do is place the agency in charge of hunting; in charge of hunting everything 7 days a week.

Laws must be fairly applied.  Remember that.

And if you want to talk "costs"; it cost the legislature somewhere in the $100,000 neighborhood to hold three hearings last year in per-diems for the legislators, their staffers, trips associated, food, etc. That was three meetings- and this has been going on for decades.

What is the cost to the state? Little in comparison.  The AG's office staff and the Court Justices are already paid, as are agency personnel. 

Cost to hunters? Whatever its worth to them; be it $5 or $500.  They know they aren't getting a refund; but if there is money left it goes to hunter advocacy- that is a win for all of us.

[bigben]

Wow thats what Your upset about.   . Goodnight kathy hope your fight for sunday hunting goes well